Libyan "stolen" children

[Arthur62]

There seems to be a lot of hype concerning children who are living with their fathers' in Libya. Mothers' are claiming that these children are stolen but surely these children are just simply living with one of their parents. It happens all the time in England when the mother steals the children from the father.

pffff

have to unemployed to be primary caregiver

never heard of maternity leave?

• we should all have our children removed, presumably to people they've never met in libya

pfffff

on wind up

hope he doesn't upset anyone (probability is there will be people on here who have had their children removed in this way, assume you'r happy for them to read this )

I wouldn't be happy for any parent to lose contact with their child/ren but if the law was more equal gendered, Libyans would not have to take such action and be forced to lose their kids in this country. 70 % of fathers lose all contact with their children within 2 years in this country. It's a fact. look it up.

Why do 70% of fathers lose access though?

Read the threads on here arthur and you will find that many men lose contact with their children through not bothering themselves. Incorrect to blame the mother every time contact is lost.

Please do be aware that your apparent gloating at this scenario (children removed to other countries, mothers not knowing where they are) will impact badly on parents on here who are in this situation. It is not that unlikely that there will be some. be aware of that.

You tell me... perhaps it's because of the meagre contact the courts allow, constant crap from the ex, stalling tactics from the mother, can't afford to keep going to court, mummy has a new daddy for them.......... Pick one.

Arthur, correct me if I'm wrong, but you seem to be advocating protesting at the injustice of the UK court system by breaking the law and taking children to a different country from the parent that has been the primary caregiver.

That can't be right, can it?

Children's lives turned upside down to prove a point/protest?

I don't believe you are advocating such a thing; yet it sounds as if you are. Can you clarify please?

That is your opinion IME in many (not all)cases it is because he does not give a shit. If you want to argue about the unfairness of our legal custody system then you need to start linking to proof, showing why these men have no contact and proving that it is no fault of their own in the majority of cases.

I think it's disgusting that children are taken away from mothers to go to live in another country. All I am saying is that these children are not stolen but are living with one of their parents. It is well documented that mothers always win in the courts and that if this was more balanced, these Libyans would not be forced to do so. A Libyan father would not stand a chance and he knows that.

To be honest, if it were me, I would consider the same kind of action.

Ok, if you were living in Libya and were married to a Libyan, going through a divorce, would you flee the country they were being brought up in to keep the children? I would.

They are stolen - the word is appropriate. They are unexpectedly and illegally removed from the place where they are supposed to reside, and taken elsewhere illegally to a place where they are not supposed to reside. The person who has suffered the loss does often initially know what has happened, sometimes does not ever really find out fully what has happened, and has no way of getting them back.

That seems to fulfil the definition of stolen pretty thoroughly to me.

There seems to be no interest in the children in these situations by you arthur, apart from "they seem fine". It is all about the fathers. I would say that someone who illegally removed children from their primary caregiver and was not a terribly good father, personally. Where is the consideration for the children in all of this?

provide proof about the court system and I will discuss this.

Mothers do not always win custody in a divorce. That is not the law.

You cannot steal what is already yours.

Right, ok so you are justifying the Libyan fathers' action rather than advocating it as a rational response to perceived injustices in the UK court process?

The way to challenge these injustices is not to flee illegally with children to another country.

Had the father tried to gain access/custody through the courts (and failed)?

What would I do? I would think about what was best for my children. I would hope to keep them in the same country as both parents. But I would never live in Libya.

Google the results of custody cases ISNT,I can't be bothered to paste and post it.

'you cannot steal what is already yours' your attitude is absolutely disgusting children are not some possesion that belongs to me. They are a person in their own right and deserve respect, care and choice not a possesion that is owned by someone .

Right, ok so you are justifying the Libyan fathers' action rather than advocating it as a rational response to perceived injustices in the UK court process?

Yes.

It's terrible to break the bond with either parent. It's also impossible to steal your own child

The child isn't property. And in answer to your fleeing Libya question - I wouldn't live in Libya in the first place - ever - because women have few rights.

In these cases don't the children often get taken during a contact visit?

So the argument that these men are not allowed to see their children doesn't seem to follow. It is because they are allowed to see them that they have the opportunity to take them in the first place.

You need to be clearer about that arthur- you are coming across as having a strong personal agenda, rather than having a debate.

'you cannot steal what is already yours' your attitude is absolutely disgusting children are not some possesion that belongs to me. They are a person in their own right and deserve respect, care and choice not a possesion that is owned by someone .

Is your child yours? I hope you think so.

Blimey. I can't keep up and answer every one instantly, so, sorry if I miss a few...

My point may be that the Libyans thought it prudent to remove their children before going to court so that there are no residence orders in place which would prevent them.

arthur it is not the case that mothers always gain custody of children on divorce. That is just not true.

hairytriangle Sat 06-Nov-10 12:39:11
It's terrible to break the bond with either parent. It's also impossible to steal your own child.

Absolutely. :)