Neighbour problems

[VivienScott]

My new neighbour is having an extension built. As part of this the builders need to put scaffolding up on the pathway down the side of my house. The pathway is wholy my land and we use it a great deal, it where the milkman delivers milk, the postman delivers parcels through the side door in the cat flap if we're not there, the bins are, it's also the door to the house we use if we've been out and are muddy, and most importantly, it's the door to the garden the kids use, the other option is mud through the living room and on the carpets.

The neighbour came round last week and asked if it was OK to put up scaffolding and said the the estimated time would be at least three months, throughout which the builders would need access to the scaffolding and therefore my land. I wasn't exactly happy about this but in the spirit of neighbourliness I said yes but it was not to obstruct the passageway, the side door or the cat flap.

So today the scaffolders have turned up, started erecting the scaffolding without even the common courtesy of a knock at the door to let me know and then proceeded to put a post up right in front of the door blocking it and the cat flap and also the first level walkway across the door!!! I went out and told them to stop and take it down because I'd not agreed to it, which eventually they did. I said unless they could come up with a way of putting it up without causing an obstruction it had to go, they said they can't for whatever reason (I think they were being a bit jobsworth) and left.

Anyway the neighbour has just left my doorstep, she's at work during the day so wasn't there when the scaffolders were, asked me if there was anyway round it, I said no not for that length of time, it would be like no front door for 3 months we use the side door so much. She then said could she speak to my husband as perhaps me being a stay at home mum had left me with a distorted view of the real world where people were actually willing to look beyond their own needs and those of their pets and children because unless I give permission they can't build the extension as they need the scaffolding!!!! She then threatened legal action against me, said she was entitled to temporary access to the land, which I know she isn't. Needless to say I told her to hop it in slightly more colourful language.

Apart from it ending in a slanging match I'm beginning to wonder should I just put up with the massive hassle of it for 3+ months in order to just preserve neighbourly relations or, given her rudeness, and the fact it is a massive pain in the neck and I'm under no legal obligation to give permission, despite what she tried to tell me, just stick to my guns. OH thinks we should tell her to f off, but he would!

She's only been there a little while and I don't really know her at all, but she's always seemed a bit highly strung. Rational side is saying just give in for a quiet life, stubborn side of me thinks if she can't be polite she deserves nothing and giving into her will just encourage her ridiculous behaviour.

Which side of me is BU???

We had a similar situation last month, admittedly on a much smaller scale - the scaffolding was only up for two weeks - but it all worked out OK. The neighbours asked the week beforehand, and were themselves annoyed that they hadn't been told sooner by the builders. It was a real issue for us because we had just had a brand new front path put down, new plants etc. But we've got on well with those neighbours for 8 years now so I did it for them as a favour. I absolutely wouldn't have agreed to it for the git on the other side because I couldn't trust him not to damage anything or stick to the schedule.

We took photos of the path and garden beforehand so that if there was damage we could prove it afterwards. The builder also took photos. We had a verbal agreement that any damage would be repaired, but other people might prefer to have a formal agreement on paper. I also reserved the right to insist that the scaffolding be taken down at any point during the building work if I felt our property was being abused. I also checked that he had liability insurance.

It all worked fine. The scaffolding covered part of our front entrance for that time, but we could still get past. I told the kids to be careful not to bang into it, but it was pretty stable.

I'm glad we did say yes because we've built up Brownie points now with the neighbours. However, I certainly wouldn't have agreed for three months, with that much inconvenience, and with such a rude neighbour. I can't imagine she had any right to demand access.

Good points about insurance and possible damage, hadn't even thought about that!

Frankly I am surprised that anyone has come onto this thread and said that the OP is being unreasonable in wanting access to her back door, and wanting her cat to be able to get in and out of the catflap.

If it was only going to be for a week or two, I might be willing to put up with this inconvenience - but it is for a minimum of three months! The OP is being perfectly reasonable to expect that the builders erect the scaffolding so that she can still use her back door.

Otherwise she is going to have wet, muddy feet in and out of her front door for the worst of the winter. Plus, if the cat flap won't open, she is going to have to let the cat in and out every time it wants to go - or risk 'accidents' on the floor, to add to the mud.

The neighbour had no right to come round and be abusive - does she seriously think that this is a good way to get the OP's cooperation? I severely doubt that she has any 'right' to erect scaffolding that would so restrict access to the house for that length of time, so unless she has the OP on side, she's going to struggle to get her extension done.

One other point that the OP could raise with her is the question of escape in the case of a fire - if the back door is blocked up, this takes away an avenue of escape for the family which doesn't sound safe or legal to me.

Just to highlight relevant parts of minpen's link:

In order to grant an access order the court must be convinced that the reasons you need to gain access to a neighbour’s land, if they have flatly refused you permission

The basic interpretation of the law here is that the work must relate to the ‘preservation’ of an existing structure as opposed to granting permission to gain access to a neighbour’s land in order to make it easier to construct a new development, e.g. a new conservatory or extension

Basically, you can force them to get a court order (which they won't get coz it's not "preservation").

Scaffolders will miraculously find some way of not using your land.

YANBU

She's a patronising bitch. This is 2010 not the 1950s

TBH, it's utterly down to Mrs Extension to smooth this over, to come round and profusely apologise for her disgusting comments.

"How DARE she come round shouting the odds, how dare she TELL you to accept it, and HOW very dare she deride you for being a SAHM."

Totally agree with LittleMiss on this bit.

SDTG, I thought that about fire escape!

Those " should be in front of TBH. DD's mithering is distracting me

OTOH, are you 100% sure about the path being "yours"; some paths have rights of shared access. Check deeds.

1. You can build scaffold around doorways - I would say they are being lazy because it would mean a break in the walkway on the first level.

1. If they want to put scaffolding on your property they mut show you their liability certificate (insurance).

1. They must agree to repair any damage caused to your property to your satisfaction.

1. How are they going to ecure the scaffolding? It has to be secured to a building if over a certin height, this is normally done with a fitting that has to go into the wall.

1. Do all of their staff have the appropriate working at heights training and are they qualified to erect scaffolding?

1. You need to give them a permit to work if they are on your land, it sets out how long the works take, what they entail etc.

1. They must carry out risk assessment and give you a copy before starting work.

YANBU. Your neighbour is being an arse. They don't need to block your door for three months.

I think you should point out to your neighbour that it's not just the inconvenience of not being able to use your side door, but also one of safety as if you can't use it you have one less exit from the building in an emergency. In the case of a fire this could be fatal.

Can't believe what she said about you being a SAHM skewing your veiw. Obviously being a working women her veiw is skewed that you will be majorly inconvienced all day, everyday for at least 3 months.

This could turn into a nightmare neighbour situation.

If I were her solicitor I would advise her that she has no right to have the scaffolding on your land and that she has the following options:

1. Get the builder to reorganise the scaffolding so that it does not impede your access, and if that's possible, she should apologise to you with a bunch of flowers and the work could go ahead.

1. If not, and the scaffolding must impede your access, she should approach you with a view to compensating you for your inconvenience. If you were agreeable, you could agree a reasonable sum per week for the duration.

1. Otherwise, she cannot have her extension.

I would try and sort this out and rise above her rudeness. She should of course have got this all sorted out before the work started.

YANBU to be very cross but should try to avoid slanging matches with your next-door neighbour. Neighbour disputes are terrible and only ever resolve when someone moves.

It sounds as though the scaffolders were clueless (which should be a worry for the builders). They shouldn't have put the scaffolding right in front of the door, even if the door opens inwards, because that could be risky if you needed to get out of the house that way in an emergency. But from the convenience point of view, i.e. that's the door you habitually use, it wouldn't be unreasonable to put up with the nuisance for a few days, but certainly not for three months.

I think she could probably go to court for reasonable access, but that will add to her costs and delay the start of building, and the court might not agree to the scaffolding blocking your doorway for that length of time.

Maybe you could suggest a site meeting with you, your DH, the neighbours, and their builders, to sort out how the scaffolding could be put up without impeding your rightful access to your own home. If you can reach an agreement, then insist that the builder is present to supervise the scaffolders and ensure they keep to what was agreed.

Her comments to you were insulting, but maybe she's already stressed, or maybe she's used to getting her own way. Either way, a workable compromise would be the way to go.

We've had building work done on our house at various times over the years. The scaffolders have always been able to put up scaffolding without causing us access problems - it sounds as though your neighbours' scaffolders didn't want to make the effort.

I think fire escape problems trump any neighbourly consideration. No rent or financial compensation can make up for this.

I think you made her a very fair offer originally - she's clearly employed useless/lazy builders. That's her problem.

There is no way that a decent scaffolder couldn't erect a platform that still gives you full access to your property.

We had our roof done a few years ago - the whole house was caged in scaffolding - but access was easily left for back and front doors.

Bet she's busy bending her DH's ear right now about how unreasonable you're being!

Might be worth asking her in what WOTH world does speaking like that to people get results?

AGREE with LITTLE MISS FIRECRACKERS post - brilliant - yes do nothing - my m-i-l has recently had similiar access type problem with bully neighbour - went to her solic. who told her just that. He said let them fork out for solicitors letters - and every time you ignore them they have to pay for another one. At the end of the day its them that need something from you - not vice versa and you dont have to oblige or respond to their stupid notes through the door or even their solicitors letters. The only thing not to ignore would be a court letter - but that aint gonna happen - would cost them a fortune - unless they went to small claims court - but how could they - you dont owe them anything.

This sort of thing would make me evil I'm afraid - I would after that performance at the door say a flat NO - whether or not you block my cat flap or door I am now withdrawing my permission completely to come onto my land full stop - Tatty Bye ! and to everyone who's said do it for good neighbour relations etc. do you really believe these people are ever going to make nice neighbours - the way they've started out ? No way IMO - and if you give in to them their apparent sense of entitlement and hostility whenever you say no to anything will only increase so best way is to nip it in the bud - or you will have endless trouble with them IMO.

Your original offer was fair.

Unfortunately she compromised it by not being there when the scaffolding was being erected.

If the extension is that important to her she should absolutely have been available to supervise this essential stage of the work and to deal with any problems that may have arisen -and clearly they did.

If she had made herself available you perhaps could have worked out a solution then and there.

Having builders is hard work. If she is going to be this high maintenance at the beginning, it doesn't bode well for the next three months when more problems will undoubtedly escalate. I think you must charge rent on your land at the very least.

Am [shocked]. You definitely NBU. She needs an enormous favour from you and when doesnt get it throws a tantrum and is very rude! Outrageous. Agree with LittleMissHissyFit you are in the strong position.

I'd get it in writing that they would pay for any damage to your property and a deadline date as once it's up and the job goes overtime(which it will) it'll be a nightmare dealing with her to get it down.

I'd point out to her you're not asking for a fee which wouldn't be unreasonable.

These situations in my experience escalate very quickly and I do feel for you. I agree with other posters, I would now just sit tight and wait for her to come back to you. Firstly she needs to apologise and then you can move forward. If the scaffolding company are any good they will be able to erect scaffolding that overhangs and doesn't have to have supporting poles on your land. However they still need your permission for this. I am sure you know that builders are very very messy and generally don't give a toss about clearing up that mess. Be aware that all manner of stuff could be dropped into your property. Please also bear in mind, and I know you have probably realised this, but once you have agreed and the scaffolding is up you will not be able to remove it yourself or have another scaffolder take it down. So be very sure that you are happy before you move forward. Frankly your neighbour has handled this very badly from the start. They are now delaying the build, this will be costing her money and may delay the project for a while if the builder is busy. Don't forget you are holding all the cards and you are definitely not being unreasonable. Best of luck.

Having nightmare neighbours whose building work took almost 3 years and involved dust, noise and continual obstruction from both themselves and their workmen, I have every sympathy for you. No way should you put up with this, and the stupidity is that had she been pleasant and spoken to her workmen to ensure you were okay with what was being proposed, maybe this wouldn't have escalated?

When we had our own building work done I made sure I went to our other neighbours to explain, apologise in advance for any inconvenience and took round a good bottle of wine - thought it was the least I could do........ and our builders also went round to introduce themselves and leave their contact details in case of any problems.

VivienScott you are most definitely NOT being unreasonable. The way Mrs Extension spoke to you was outrageous and I am sitting her with a cat's bum mouth on your behalf as I am so cross.

This too happened to us (I'm amazed that so many MNr's have had this problem, thought it was just us), and the scaffolding was up for over three months. The side of our house was left filthy by the builders, as were all the windows on that side. Not a word of thanks from our neighbours, nor an offer to clean up after their builders. It was awful. We thought we were being neighbourly letting them put it up on condition access was clear/fire exit etc. but they just took the piss. Builders told us that they could have built extension from the inside but neighbours wanted this option as it was cheaper, never mind the inconvenience to us. Actually I am furious just thinking back. I was a pushover. So much for being neighbourly. Stick to your guns.

Is the putting up of this scaffolding the first bit of work, or have they already begun preparing other things? Because if they have, then the pressure is really on (them) to make peace with you.

YABVU you can use the front door, it is not the end of the world is it to use another door for a while