DSD abortion thread part II

[GivesHeadlessHorseman]

carry on ladies....

I'm speechless at your h's comments, how on Earth does he think he can just pass the responsibility to you?

IMO if he really believes that it is mainly your responsibility to raise that baby in the place of irresponsible teenager... gosh... it doesn't look good, does it?

He either gets in the reality wagoon asap, FGS it is a baby not a dog she is getting!

"A man is a man".... yes, and a woman is a woman, not a servant whose main responsibility is to pander to unreasonable request of her partner.

She is also stressed out, and in shock, yet she seems to be the one who is more realistic about the whole situation.

Tess, how can we help you to get some counselling, on your own.

You are carrying this on your shoulders.

YOU need help on your own, from a professional, in addition to couples' counselling if you want and he's willing.

Oh, please, 'he's a man'. He's a father and an adult. I have both girls and a boy. I'll be damned if I excuse his ever acting like a twonk when he's an adult with 'he's a man.'

BS and a disserve to both men and women.

I've not villified him. He is an adult here. If the OP is acting like one, so he needs to as well.

This is make or break for Tess and the family.

If he doesn't see it as such, well, no matter what, she needs to see a professional on her own to get to grips with it all because right now, she's the only one who is acting like an adult here.

I wonder how much use the H was when the DSD was dumped by her mother on his doorstep. Did he assume then that Tess would just step in and mother a girl who must have been very unhappy even if she wasn't noisily difficult.
Just in terms of how likely it is that he will get a grip now and understand that he has to do some work here, that he is not excused everything just because he has a penis.

he is a man, and a an always assumes that the woman will take responsibility of the parental role involving children

What utter nonsense. My husband changed careers entirely, taking a huge pay cut to do so, so that he could share childcare with me. You might not like and respect men, but I do, and thus I hold them to the same standards as women.

I'm pretty cross that it fell to Tess to take his daughter out and chat with her about her options, accompany her to the Dr, etc., while he was out getting pissed. That's pretty telling, isn't it? First hurdle, and he fails.

OP, I agree with the posters that suggest emergency family counselling. I think having an impartial "referee" would allow you to set boundaries and manage the expectations of your DSD and your DH. It is not OK for your DSD to imagine that life will go on as it has before, just with a real life dolly in a cool pram and you in the wings to take care of the messy bits. It is also not OK for your DH to expect you to take on the lion's share of the work. I think they probably need to hear this from someone who isn't so closely involved, though. Ask your GP or perhaps even chat to these people
here
bpas

I just wanted to reiterate that you are doing brilliantly Tess. It's a shame that your (D)H is taking time to get on board, but he's going to have to, sooner rather than later.

You sound so strong.

tess - so sorry you're going through this.
I didn't manage to read more than the first half of the other thread so don't know if this has already been suggested but:
Can you get hold of one of those lifelike baby dolls they use in schools? that would give your DSD some real insight into what having this baby is going to entail; and also that you REALLY MEAN IT when you say you aren't going to pick up the slack when she can't be arsed.

I'm not suggesting it as a means to making her change her mind; more a sort of wake-up call for her (and your "D"H) as to the reality of the situation when it happens.

Your "D"H needs to man up about this as well. he might be shocked, upset and devastated, but taking the slack route of getting drunk rather than facing up to the situation is pretty pathetic.

Tess, if you think he has agreed to counselling (which I agree would be a great idea) then give him the job of finding a family counsellor and making the payment arrangements, and making the appointment for the three of you, all to be done in the next 5 days. Maybe the question of who the father is could be approached during counselling, which should take place over an extended period not just one or two sessions. There are enough problems here to hash out for months.

I agree with the poster who pointed out that although Tess keeps on insisting she will not be taking care of everything once the baby arrives, she is even as she speaks, taking care of everything. That has to stop now. Give the DH the job of finding the counselling, finding resources to help his DD, contacting agencies etc., on her behalf. And he needs to go to the doctor visits too. He needs to take time off work and accompany her to the doctor, with Tess if the DSD asks.

I am more concerned than before, since hearing what the DSD said about wanting someone to love her, that some boy or even some man has taken advantage of her. There are males out there who can spot a needy girl from miles off and exploit that. "If you really loved me you wouldn't be asking me to use a condom.."

krstylmorgan - my mother fucked up my life and never wanted me. Now I have children she is threatening me and saying she has rights. No she doesn't, she gave the right to be a grandmother away the day she abandoned me at the social services/doorstep/strangers house. Yep, she did all three. My children are doing just fine as they have parents who love them, my inlaws who love them and they will do just fine as I am always going to be here for them.

I think it's too easy for Tess's DH to put her reluctance down to the baby not being her biological GC. He needs to be made to see it's irrelevant really - she doesn't want her life mapped out for her and her opportunities curtailed because of someone else's problem.

Tess, sorry if you've already answered this but the threads are so huge I can't remember!

Have you actually told her how you upset you feel about how this will impact on your life? Have you had a discussion about whether or not it is selfish of her to go ahead and just assume that everyone will fall into line? Or has all the discussion so far been about what she wants?

I know she's had a rough time with her mother but I don't see that as a reason you should pussy-foot around her. She needs to face up to the fact that her decision will have a long term negative effect on others, even if she can't see any negatives for her own life.

I also agree with the person up-thread who said that she may lose many of her friends because their parents will be very reluctant to let their daughters spend too much time around her in case they get any ideas about doing the same.

I'm thinking the reluctance to tell who the father is, is quite possibly because she doesn't know and she's embarrassed to admit that. Do you know any of her close friends' mothers well enough to ask them if they can worm it out of their daughters who the possible candidates might be?

GHH is right. Tess, you need to lay it on the line to your DSD.

Tell her you love and support her. Tell her if she goes ahead she will have your unswerving love...but you will not be primary carer. No ifs. No buts.

Then discuss how she is going to manage her life and new baby, with your help and support.

I agree with the other posters that the time for dancing in bedrooms is over. She cannot choose a baby and preserve her childhood.

Better she understands that now.

'Im sitting here and all I see is a bunch of woman vilifying the OP's dh,'

On the other thread, if I'm not mistaken you were trying to find out if he could be prosecuted for neglect because the dsd got pregnant in the first place Altkinum, so decide which side you are on please.

Irrespective of what the girl wants, Tess has to make it plain as others have said, that she doesn't want this, and that any help will be minimal. The dh is also father to the other children and by supporting his dd come what may, he is not being a good parent to the boys.

Showing her the gina ford book for a baby's routine is a great idea. After the scan the conversations need to be much more serious and the tip toeing around her and the baby needs to stop, it should be her focus now, like a woman of any age. Her dad needs to enforce that too not just you tess.

I just wanted to add that I think you are doing a great job in an awful situation, it must be so so hard being in that house right now. And it's great that your SDD felt able to discuss this with you. I agree that what your H said was well out of order but it does sound like he's just desperate to sort it out for his DD and lost sight of YOU in it all (not right at all but understandable as long as he's got the message now that you will NOT be bringing this baby up!).

My dsis told my dad she was pg when she was about 18/19 (can't remember) and he started off blowing up then just didn't talk about it (that's what my dad does to cope!). She had the baby (he's now 12) and they lived with my parents for the first couple of years and my mum did a lot of the work. There is a big difference between 14 and 18 and I really think your SDD needs to spend time with some babies to see what it's really like (like others have said). I know you don't know anyone yourself but I'm sure you can be put in touch with people who arrange this sort of thing for teenagers? It does sound like she has problems because she was abandoned and therefore counselling would be good for that too. She needs to know that having a baby isn't the answer to making her feel better (I know Shoshe's situation was different but look at what happened with her family :( )

Good luck with the scan today, as another poster said, prepare yourself for her possibly being further gone than you maybe expect (just with all this stuff about her periods?!)

Don't know what else to say really, I think you're great and your family are very lucky to have you!

At least your dsd will have her scan today and you will know exactly how far along she is, and then decisions can be made.

Will there be an automatic right to full-time childcare during school hours? And from a very young age? I don't see why there should be TBH, it's not my job to pay for that, and I resent it frankly - that's part of the whole adult decision process that should be factored in before you go ahead and have a baby and keep it. I'd be very hardline and say if the parents can't or won't pay, or do the job, then the girl must leave school. It amazes me we fall over ourselves to make it so easy for these girls - enabling them financially to make adult choices yet encouraging them to continue with the privileges of childhood.

But anyway, that's for another thread. We need to ascertain what practical state help there is to keep her in education without an assumed reliance on Tess. If there is none, then she needs to be made aware of that, and told that it will be difficult/impractical to continue at school, and that will inevitably have a knock-on effect on her future chances of supporting her child.

For some girls that would delight them - they don't want to be there anyway, and they'd have no qualms about letting someone else sort out all the boring practicalities, like money, and the awkward fact that they don't have any. Don't know about Tess's DSD though.

And if there is childcare, how would she feel about having to get her baby to a full-time creche, all day every day, then get to school on time, then go back to pick it up, come home on the bus, on winter evenings in the rain etc etc. Things like that will add a couple of hours to her day, and that's before she's even looked after the baby!

These are the harsh details she must face up to if she is to have any idea of what her life will be like. I really don't think you should be going out of your way at the moment to look for easy solutions for her. she needs to be encouraged to look for them herself - and the sooner the better.

She need to be presented with a whole list of practical questions and foreseen issues/problems, and told she needs to provide you with fully though out answers and strategies.

Of course the reality is, once the baby is there, you will go out of your way to look for solutions for her Tess, won't you? Because that's what we do. And she will be banking on it.

Another one here who has been following from the beginning. I don't think that the conversation with your DH was a complete disaster. Obviously he is being completely unreasonable, and has completely dismissed your career. But he has at least been honest with you and let you know why he is acting as he is. He obviously feels extremely guilty about your DSD's mother and is desperate to make it up to her. It is very convenient for him to brush aside your concerns in order to do that. But you have something to work with during counselling. A good counsellor will force him to actually examine these daft assumptions. And will be a neutral third party who won't let him get away with cheap reasoning like "if it was her biological GC then she'd do it".

If I were you I think I would strike while the iron is hot and get him into counselling pronto. Then he will have to think about the realities of the situation, and not the fantasy in his head.

Tess - you've got to get through today and the scan before you deal with anything else.

After that's happened then you, (D)H and DSD need to sit and work out what's going to happen. Several things need to be covered:

1. DSD's education plans - how will she manage immediately? What are her plans long term?
2. What are her plans long term re moving into her own place?
3. Immediate finances - what benefits are available? How much are you prepared to contribute? If you are prepared to contribute a lump sum perhaps encouragement to get as much as possible from ebay / freecycle so there's more for childcare would be a plan.
4. Division of household duties - if DSD is an adult she should be helping around the house (cleaning, cooking, washing, ironing etc). She may already do some of this but it will be a great help for when she lives on her own if not.
5. Division of childcare.

No 5 is the biggie I think. Tess, are you saying you want nothing to do with care or will you help on a defined basis? If the latter, perhaps you could draw up a rosta with a few duties for both you and H to help? Eg, each of you take one night? Obviously this won't help much if DSD is breastfeeding and if that works out you don't want to discourage her (for cost reasons as much as anything!) But if each of you could take one night it would help her with her studies (and therefore into employment and off your hands) and it would encourage H into doing something.

He needs to realise that you won't just roll over and do it all. It is not your child. It would not be your child if DSD was not DSD but DD.

DSD and H need to be aware of just how you feel - that you have been backed into a situation which you feel trapped in. You are prepared to help but you cannot be expected and will not be expected to provide a 24hr maternity nurse / nanny service.

Tess, you are in a horrible situation and I feel deeply for you (and your DSD that she feels so let down by her mum). You are doing an amazing job of forcing everyone's hand - it needs doing. Inertia is not an option here.

FWIW the father is important. But get your deal struck before worrying about that. Don't bank on any support in whatever way, get yourselves sorted first then deal with that.

Tess, as far as I can see it, he's terrified. He thought he'd done a good job taking over when her biomum dumped her. He is probably seeing this as a huge rejection because it's saying that the home he's provided for her isn't 'good' enough.

His kneejerk reaction is that the two of you will do everything you can to keep her in the family and stop her feeling any more rejected. However, he can't see past the fact that you are at home all day and therefore could look after the baby.

He will probably come round to reality and be able to discuss this more reasonably in a bit - He probably feels that, as her father, he needs to 'solve' all her problems immediately. However, in this case it's not an immediate solution which is needed. It's immediate reassurance that you will stand by her, followed by reasoned discussions and a solution which is acceptable to all parties.

Oh yes, I completely agree with Galena that part of this is probably the male need to find a solution to everything.

And forgot to say that I am really impressed at how well you are doing Tess. I very much doubt that I could be so rational and sensible if it happened to me.