To want DSD to have an abortion?

[TessoftheDamned]

Heavy going stuff but really doubting myself on this.

DSD is 14 and we thought was a straight-laced girl, very into her studies, hardly ever goes out, etc. Anyway, has fallen pregnant and just had the nerve to tell us (lives with us full-time, her mother is not in the picture). The guy is 'long gone' as she says, refuses to tell us his name or where she met him. To be honest I'm a bit worried there was some pressure and perhaps even date rape thing going on, but I haven't pushed it as she's very vulnerable at the moment (as one might expect).

She is adamant she is keeping her baby. Although I'm sure it will end up looking to us as parents and her as a sister, we don't want another baby and don't want to look after hers. She's not an adult but it is her body, I'm so torn. I feel like she's doing herself and everyone else a great disservice bringing this heartache, but of course a baby is normally a source of joy...

DH is flabbergasted and shocked, he's still trying to find out who the boy is (she told us 3 days ago). She clams up when we suggest anything other than keeping the baby and refuses to speak to us.

AIBU?

WRT adoption - it's the same as abortion as far as what I can see in her reaction to it. Either suggestion sends her reeling off to her bedroom saying 'Keeping it' - which has become her mantra in the last couple of days.

She hasn't come back from her friends but has agreed to come back at 6 and get ready so we can go out to eat, just me and her. I'm shitting myself now as there's an 'appointment' to talk about it!

I hope that things are cleared up a bit at GP tomorrow and then subsequent scan later in the week. At least tomorrow she will get a chance to speak to someone who is not a peer or a parent, and hopefully that will help her to judge the best thing for her, and hopefully she will realise the ramifications on all of us.

Exactly, scaley!

How damaging would that be, being brought up with someone forced into doing it because otherwise she'd lose her marriage?

Chandra, there is Gillick competency, which means that a child under 16 can make medical decisions for themselves if deemed competent by the court. She is likely to be deemed competent, but if she has been pressured to take a course of action, how free is she to make that decision? It is up to the adults around her to help her come to an informed decision, which includes telling her all the support that is available to teenage mothers to help them continue with their studies and make a success of their life with a child.

And yes, I absolutely do not want to bring up another baby, I thought that the baby days were long gone. I am expected by DH to do all of the daytime childcare because 'I have plenty of time' and what would you all do if your 15-year-old highly strung, tired and stressed out daughter had GSCE's in the morning and her baby was screaming the place down? Would you really just leave her to get on with it and not help?

'She hasn't come back from her friends but has agreed to come back at 6'

That will be you, stuck with her kid till whatever time she agrees to come home. Or her out till heaven knows when with the kid.

Poor kid.

'what would you all do if your 15-year-old highly strung, tired and stressed out daughter had GSCE's in the morning and her baby was screaming the place down? Would you really just leave her to get on with it and not help?'

No. I can tell you what I'd do: have a massive panic attack and wind up in a corner dithering like an idiot covering my ears and cooing to myself or leaving the house.

I had to be quite heavily medicated after having mine and the second they stirred I was up to feed them because the noise of it would trigger off my anxiety and PTSD and in minutes I'd be in a panic attack.

TessoftheDamned it is pretty obvious where I stand, and I know that is opposite of your OP.

BUT

Could you think about approaching tonight's discussion with "Ok, you are keeping the baby. Ok. So let's talk about how you are going to manage these things...."

You will find one of two things happens:

1. you come up with sensible plans for what life with the baby will be like

2. you talk, and as she isn't so worried about convincing you that she wants to keep the baby, she will start to think about the real implications of that, and may start to think about the possibility of a termination.

I think that if you go along tonight with a 'plan to convince DSD to terminate' then she will simply dig her heels in, regardless of what she is actually feeling. I agree with previous posters that she is probably relating the baby to herself, and thinking that it is like 'dumping' the baby, as she was dumped.

If I was put in that position i'm afraid I'd leave DH to get on with it but i realise that's not terribly helpful.
It's taken the 4th baby for my DH to actually be around enough to see how hard it is to get out the house with a newborn, to see the constant washing from leaking both ends and the constant feeding having thrown up the first meal. Most men haven't a fecking clue what it involves in my experience so if HE wants to make the sacrifices I'm afraid I would let HIM.

Expat That's what I'm worried about. If we say we will not help her out at all, will she just schlep the baby along wherever she goes til whatever time? Or should I volunteer to keep the baby so at least I know where he/she is and get it to bed on time?

Huge leap from tonight to there I do realise, but don't see that it's unlikely.

mary - I am definitely realising now how her mother may play a huge part of all this, and that she wants someone to love her unconditionally. WRT your second point - if I found out I was pregnant, not only would I sue the hospital who sterilised both me and DH () I would absolutely have a termination. I feel too old to go through all of that again, and don't think the child would appreciate having parents who weren't up to taking it to playgroups, the park, etc.

Oh, Tess, that is difficult. It sounds as if she has clammed shut against any solutions.

I hope it goes well after the scan. Could she perhaps ring one of the advice agencies meantime, who could give her an idea of how (in practical terms) she might tackle being a parent?

It may be wrong to stress this, but others have brought it up: is she prepared for the possibility that there is a high chance (as for every pregnancy) that the baby will not be low-maintenance throughout its life.

I think when someone's gone through sterilisation (and I know a lot of people who do this and still use contraception, or they both get sterilised) that's a pretty clear message they don't want to do it again.

Mine know that, though, and DH is on the same page: teen pregnant? Off to mother and baby unit if you want to keep it.

But OP, you have my sympathy.

Lougle I totally agree with you. I have a much more balanced approach about the whole thing at the moment and definitely won't bring up termination again.

I do think I'll start a convo along the lines of 'Okay, if you want to keep the baby, how are you going to...XYZ' and that will give me an idea of how mature she is at the minute and what else she needs explaining to her, along with a general idea of how much she can truly be expected to care for and understand the needs of the baby.

I'm hoping she will open up to me a bit more tonight as when I called her to ask about going for dinner she immediately said 'Is Dad coming' which sounded quite panicky. When I said he wasn't she relaxed and sounded rather cheerful, saying what she was in the mood for.

Now the problem of course will be if DH turns up straight from work this evening and doesn't stay out as I expect him to....as I don't want her to think I have lied to her about him not coming home for the meal, etc.

Thanks littleredpumpkin [hsmile]. I do know my situation was different for one thing I had a fair idea of what I was signing up for I had a two yo sister but my family believed I would not be able to bond with a child made out of rape.

But I think the reason there are such strong opinions on this from either side are because there is no good answer there is no way out either way someone gets badly hurt so it is just a case of the lesser evil. Now each person has different morals that allow different choices to be made. Some people find termination wrong some think a child caring for a child wrong but we are all different and what ever decision that you make there will be damage done to your DSD but as shown be the extremely different reactions from both sides only your DSD knows which one she can live with.

Oh and Scared meant to say what an awful road you had to tread. I hope you're in a much better place now.

WRT your husband's reaction - do you think he might have already committed to do some of the babycare? As in, " Of course Tess will look after the baby while you are at school/your friends' houses/the cinema/on a night out"? Might explain why he went off on one when you told him you categorically wouldn't do that.

Lougle makes a good point about how to approach your chat with DSD.

If she's hell-bent on proving she's a better mother than her own (bio) mum, perhaps asking her what she thinks a good mum needs to do for her child and then talking about how she is going to provide those things is the way to go.

At some point I'd also want to make clear to her that if she doesn't have this baby she can still be a wonderful mother one day, but maybe that's a conversation for later down the line.

I really sympathise Tess. In your shoes I would probably have to fight the urge to get my DD to the clinic for an immediate termination. I know it has to be the girl's own choice, but how can a 14 year old really be equipped to make this sort of choice? She must be very scared.

I have to say that knowing my cousin who had a baby at 15, and knowing a number of friends who have had abortions.. my cousin is happy, did well at school, is doing A levels and plans to attend university (where she will be helped with housing and childcare costs as a parent).
My friends are depressed and miserable and on self destruct missions unable to shrug off the guilt and heartache after the choices they made.
Don't pressure her into an abortion.

I think you do need to make it very clear that you cannot and will not look after a baby for her, that if she decides to keep the baby she has got to take care of it, and find appropriate childcare while she goes to school. But you should be supportive of her decision if she wishes to keep it- just lay the rules now- mother and baby unit might be an idea..

However with her age (she's very young of course) she will possibly have encounters with social services and will have a tough tough time ahead of her. The law says she must remain at school until she is 16, and also whoever the father is would be in major trouble of course should he be identified as it is rape at that age.

As far as I am aware even with Gillick/Hale principles, a parent can still force an abortion at this age. I might be wrong (sorry) But I don't think you should do that, I think she would suffer greatly on an emotional level and more harm may come of it.

I'm pretty torn myself just typing that so my thoughts are with you on this one- what a horrible situation to find yourself in. Good luck.

I know about Gillick competency but I also know that this examines whether the child is competent enough to make her own decisions, and tbh... she doesn't seem to have some very realistic views on what parenthood entails. In any case, I doubt the courts will be interested in getting involved in an unplanned teenage pregnancy issue.

I agree the child should not be forced to have an abortion, actually, I think that is impossible to stop her from having a child if she does want to, but I'm with the stepmum here, she shouldn't be forced to raise another kid if she doesn't want to do it, more so when the 14 year old seems so immature to realise what she is getting herself into.

Tess, you and the DH need to find counselling about this asap, whatever is decided about the baby. There's a lot going on here between the two of you. Don't let it fester. What has happened here between you won't just go away.

Thanks tess I really hope that you and DSD can find a solution that will not effect you to adversely, I dont for a second believe that you should provide childcare against your wishes.

Tess, I hope it goes well.

I hope you don't mind, but I had a bit of a dig and in your area, there is The Kent Teenage Pregnancy Partnership - 01304222284 - If you phone tomorrow any time after 10am, a lady called Sarah could talk you through all the support available (whatever the decision). I literally asked 'could a mother whose child had found themselves to be pregnant at 14 phone you for advice?' and this lady said she would be more than willing.

She also said there is a newish website which is www.foryoungpeople.co.uk

I really hope you don't mind.