To think this teacher was very rude indeed!!!

[TheLadyEvilStar]

OK DS1 is not the easiest pupil at times but the Monday he asked his french teacher if he could take his blazer off as he was hot. She told him not unless he asked in french, and apparently other pupils told him as well - I didn't think they had a right to tell another pupil what to do. Anyway - DS1 told her he felt dizzy and was too hot but she told him no he couldn't, rightly or wrongly he did anyway.

Yesterday I spoke to the head of house and expressed my concern that he had already informed the teacher he was feeling unwell and yet she wouldn't let him remove his blazer unless he asked in French. She said she agreed with me that it was wrong and she would have a word with her.

Roll on today the said french bitch teacher called me not 6 minutes ago and basically repeated what DS1 had said to me, I explained my feelings which are - and I quote "Some children are so much quicker at learning languages, I am 35 now and have never been brilliant at it"

The bitch teacher then replied "Now be quiet and listen to me, I am older than you"

I replied "Excuse me, I am not a pupil, I am the mother of a pupil"

She didn't like that and ended the call.

I am fucking furious, I have left a message for the head of house to call me ASAP.

cold, I obviously didn't explain it properly last night.

When I told the HoL that I wanted the letter written in Polish, I did so to prove a point. I had been trying to explain that DS1 like some other children are not great at grasping other languages. So when she replied "My teacher is French not Polish and won't be able to" I replied "And my son is English not French and is not able to ask in French but is expected to".

so yes I am dropping the polish reply and also the public apology

Good for you. I can see why they were tempting ideas. I also have a son with an ASD and it is infuriating when people cannot tell the difference between that and being deliberately naughty, or refuse to make simple allowances. I also know that you tend to be more protective, simply because you have had to be more involved and fight harder to get the basics for them.
(I do think being asked to speak in French in a French lesson is different to writing in Polish when one has never studied Polish though...)

I am not unsympathetic, but I think it is time to let it go and you are doing the right thing.
These incidents are quickly forgotten in the hurly-burly of school life, often by the next day.
Pupils love to tell each other what to do at this age; they do grow out of it. It isn't malice but self-righteousness.

Cold, I agree and that was the point I was trying to get across to the HoL. Until last year DS1 had never had a lesson in French. He is finding it very hard and struggling terribly. DP was annoyed by the situation as well, but has (in his calm way as usual) come up with a plan to help him. He is buying French CD course so when he comes round we can have an evening where we all learn together and as time goes by have French evenings...it could work I suppose (knows I will be el crappo at it lol)

I disagree that a public apology by the teacher would destroy the class's respect for that teacher - I would think it would have the opposite effect. It would show that the teacher has respect for her pupils and is grown up enough to admit when she was in the wrong, and say sorry.

Also, apologising in front of the class will demonstrate to the pupils in that class that their behaviour was not acceptable either. Or is it better that TLES's fellow pupils think it's OK to shout at him en masse when he doesn't know something?

If one of my dses was rude to a teacher in front of the class, I would want him to apologise in front of the class too.

Why would children respect a teacher who gets them to bully a fellow pupil (by shouting at him that he has to ask in french to remove his blazer)?

I do see that it is difficult for teachers to know every detail about every pupil that they teach - but they should be expected to remember important medical information - such as the fact that a particular child can suffer seizures if he gets too hot! And TLES was very sensible to phone the school and ask them to remind teachers about her son's condition.

There was a case not that long ago where a teacher ignored a sick child (because it was after school and hence she felt it was no longer her responsibility) and the child died.

And the teacher's attitude to TLES was astoundingly rude - to say to a parent 'Be quiet and listen because I am older than you!' - my jaw dropped when I read this! I absolutely think she is owed an apology for this (and I understand her making the point about languages to the Head of Languages by asking for it in polish too).

I do also think that a language teacher should know that ASD makes it very hard or even impossible for someone to learn foreign languages - I wouldn't expect them to know everything about ASD - but this impacts directly on their subject, and the condition is a common one, therefore I think they should know this.

Actually some of the greatest geniuses at learning languages in the world have been autistic. I would hate a teacher to think that my son wouldn't be good at learning a language because he has an ASD. As it happens, he is pretty good at picking up languages.
For an austistic with exceptional language skills look here at Daniel Tammet's website www.optimnen.co.uk

There's a lot of history with this boy and the school though, and with TLES and the school.

"Acanthus Thu 21-Oct-10 15:50:18

There's a lot of history with this boy and the school though, and with TLES and the school."

And that's the real trouble here. It doesn't matter what dx there is, there is a fundamental difficulty that TLES has with accepting the authority of other adults over her DS.

This has been going on for years. IME of having a child with SN, the dx is not a 'get out clause' for their child, or a 'get out clause' for me to ineffectively discipline my DD.

The dx is even more of a reason that TLES should have helped her DS to respond appropriately to the situation. Regardless of the RAS, which should be taken seriously, the fact is that the desired result is that if TLES's DS asks to remove his blazer because he is feeling poorly, that request is approved.

But, for a child with ODD or any SN which cause some level of conflict, there needs to be a united front regarding education.

My DD is 4, she isn't always enjoying school, she doesn't find the sitting down easy at all. She is at special school. Today she really didn't want to go, but if I alloweed her to stay home, then she gets the message 'kick up a fuss, stay home'.

What message has TLES's DS got from this? If a teacher gets it wrong, make merry hell and try to ridicule them. Why on earth would you insist that a teacher replies in Polish? The teacher has done their education, they are not at school to be educated, they are there to teach.

The National Curriculum is there for children to be taught. If you really feel that it is beyond your DS to learn some French, or at least make a stab at 'I don't know how' or some other phrase, even 'help?', then make an appointment and ask if it is possible that he is taken out of French. But don't send the message to your DS that he is above the rules, that he is 'different' that he can do what he wants.

Let's face it TLES - this is much more to do with his defiance than his RAS, it is just easier to present it as being about his RAS, because then the teacher is 'wrong'.

Acanthus Thu 21-Oct-10 15:50:18
There's a lot of history with this boy and the school though, and with TLES and the school.

Acanthus You are correct I have worked with them at every hurdle DS1 has faced, listened to their suggestions etc and helped put the same things in place all round. That is in the last 11 months he has been at this school.

Lougle Thu 21-Oct-10 16:18:17
And that's the real trouble here. It doesn't matter what dx there is, there is a fundamental difficulty that TLES has with accepting the authority of other adults over her DS.

Lougle

You could not be further from the truth. I have no problems with accepting authority being used over my son. I was the one - if you read recent previous threads-who told the school they needed to carry through punishments and not let him off if he was good in the next lesson.

"The dx is even more of a reason that TLES should have helped her DS to respond appropriately to the situation. Regardless of the RAS, which should be taken seriously, the fact is that the desired result is that if TLES's DS asks to remove his blazer because he is feeling poorly, that request is approved."

I Have tried to help him learn French, but as I said to the teacher "Some children pick it up easier than others" DS1 struggles.

"But, for a child with ODD or any SN which cause some level of conflict, there needs to be a united front regarding education"

Which if there wasn't then I could understand this comment.

"What message has TLES's DS got from this? If a teacher gets it wrong, make merry hell and try to ridicule them. Why on earth would you insist that a teacher replies in Polish? The teacher has done their education, they are not at school to be educated, they are there to teach"

I never made merry hell UNTIL the teacher was rude to me, then and only then did I complain to the head of house about the way she spoke to me.
I have already explained why I asked for the letter to be in Polish, I was trying to get the teacher to understand what I was saying and she wasn't, so i threw in a random request when she replied with "My teacher is French and not Polish", which actually proved what I was saying.

The National Curriculum is there for children to be taught. If you really feel that it is beyond your DS to learn some French, or at least make a stab at 'I don't know how' or some other phrase, even 'help?', then make an appointment and ask if it is possible that he is taken out of French. But don't send the message to your DS that he is above the rules, that he is 'different' that he can do what he wants.

I agree that the NC is there for children to be taught, that doesn't mean if a child struggles with a subject they should be made a spectacle of by the teacher, or made to feel stupid by the teacher getting fellow pupils to shout out "You need to ask in French"

I am sure if it was your DD who it had happened to you would have said something had she felt stupid because everyone was shouting.

"Let's face it TLES - this is much more to do with his defiance than his RAS, it is just easier to present it as being about his RAS, because then the teacher is 'wrong'"

Again you are wrong, this is to do with the fact the teacher was very Rude to me another adult. The first call was to ask for a simple reminder to be sent to the staff. there was no need for her to speak to me the way she did, but she chose to speak to me like a child which is why I complained.

I am sorry but my son was not being defiant, he had told the teacher he was feeling dizzy and hot, and asked if he could take his blazer off, she told him no, but he didn't feel well so he did. Now in normal circumstanes I would have pulled him up on it BUT he had told her he was feeling unwell, she relayed this back to me in our conversation - and I very much doubt she would have said it if DS1 had been lying about it!!

TLES look back over the threads you have started during the last few years about your DS. Tell me how this one is any different to the others, except perhaps that it was the teacher you were trying to make feel silly, rather than your son.

Until you accept that at least half the problem is you, nothing is going to change for you or your son, IMHO.

But, it is only my opinion. Interesting how many others on here who know your history would also say the same, don't you think?

A diagnosis doesn't negate the need for effective parenting. Either you are writing a different account from your RL actions, in which case how can we know? OR, you are writing an accurate account, in which case, you need to change your behaviour to benefit your DS.

Lougle

There obviously has been threads you have missed. However, I will not take the blame for a teacher being rude which is what this thread was about, others turned it into something else.

I am not half the problem, the problem is that for years I was burying my head in the sand and just saw DS1 as naughty when in fact that wasn't the case at all. At no time did I want to make him feel silly, more so I wanted to understand - I am not perfect just human and I do make mistakes. You show me a perfect person and I will show you thousands who are not.

And if you had read more recent threads, you would have seen I thanked the many posters for sticking at it and helping me to see there was more to things than just him being naughty which I do now, that doesn't mean I think he should get away with anything in fact I feel quite the opposite.

I am a very effective parent, I have got the help needed for my family and more so my son. My behavioutr is not in need of being changed.

I'm so angry at that, I grabbed a can of juice from the fridge.

Michelle haha was it high in sugar?

Just you and me then, lougle...

I don't know whether I should join this conversation. I just wanted to ask. What was the end of the teacher's sentence - which began 'Listen to me I am older than you...'?

The 'Now be quiet.' sentence was quite obviously inappropriate language. It was discourteous.

Lady, nobody who has only NT children has the remotest idea of how much you have to fight, how assertive and yes, downright scary you have to be, when you have a child with invisible SN. I would leave this thread if I were you. People don't understand, and will never understand until it happens to them. To them, behaviour is always 'good' or 'naughty', never a symptom, like bumping into things if you are blind, or not listening when you are deaf. They Do Not Get it. In a minute people are going to start going on about naughty kids and poor teachers and how there is no such thing as x or y.

Lougle and acanthus - it is not reasonable for a teacher to tell a parent 'I am older than you, be quiet and listen to me!' It was utterly rude and inappropriate.

TLES first contacted the school to ask that teachers be reminded about her son's medical condition that means he needs not to get overheated. This was a reasonable thing to do - her son should not be at risk of fits because he is not allowed to take off his blazer.

It was utterly unreasonable for the teacher to get the rest of the class to shout at TLES's ds - that is not a valid teaching method - it is bullying, pure and simple, and I would be fuming too if a teacher did that to one of my dses - and I am pretty sure you would too!

The teacher should have told TLES's son the phrase he needed, and asked him to repeat it - then he might have actually learned something!

And is it a good idea for the class to learn that it is OK for a teacher and a class full of pupils to humiliate/bully another pupil? She humiliated him in public and should apologise in the same forum, imo - that would be a good lesson for the pupils to learn - no-one is immune from having to apologise when they are in the wrong.

Sadly, as is always the case, I will bow out of this thread. Constructive criticism is not wanted, and not well received.

I am glad that you have a diagnosis, TLES. However, it is likely that at some point you will have to realise that a diagnosis is not the end of the journey, it is the beginning.

Ask a parent of a child with ASD, whether they have had to change their parenting to meet their child's needs. The resounding answer will be 'yes.' - more consistency, over and above that which everyday parenting calls for. More consideration of the language used, because literal interpretation causes emotional outburst. More forward-planning with day-to-day activities. More analysis of 'critical incidents' to learn for the future.

Ask a parent of a child with HFA, or Aspergers, more specifically. They will tell you that they have had to take more time to consciously remember that their child may be verbally 12yo, but actually 8yo and emotionally 4yo.

Ask the parent of a child with sensory issues (which are often part and parcel of an ASD diagnosis) and they will tell you that they have had to learn which fabrics, noises, colours and smells their child finds alarming. Cutting tags out of clothing, finding seamless socks, etc. It simply isn't as easy as 'I've got a diagnosis'. That is where the hard work begins.

So maybe this is all so new to you that you haven't realised that you have to parent your DS differently. Maybe no-one has told you that yet. But, I have never in my experience, met a parent of a child with SN who has been able to say 'my behaviour is not in need of change.' Of course it is. It is for all of us. We either modify our parenting to meet the needs of our child, and give them the hope of coping with society in the future, or we accept the diagnosis, but close our eyes to our child's needs.

As I say, you were right to be affronted by the manner the teacher used. You were wrong to behave as you did, trying to prove a point or not. It isn't a game.

ColdComfortFarm just in case you were referring to me there, I have a daughter with SN that affect her globally, including behaviour, attention and concentration, who now attends Special school, in part because she couldn't be contained in a MS school. I do know what it is like to fight for your child. I know how assertive you need to be. It is not assertive to play childish games and demand a public apology in Polish from a teacher for your child.

My experience has been that it is fairly easy to identify children with SEN. Staff usually suspect it for ages before parents are ready to get a diagnosis and, honestly, the most usual problem is how do you suggest to the parents that something might not be well, without distressing them, for the sake of the child.

I personally am not sure about the new fangled class democracy methods but asking other children to repeat an instruction or give their opinion is increasingly common these days (and applauded - it is interactive and part of a 'learning community') The French teacher may well be involved in these modern methods - so it might not have been as unusual as it at first sounded. Not something that I would have done - but I do see it.

I'm sorry, but I actually don't believe that the teacher said "I'm older than you, be quiet and listen to me". I'm with Lougle and Acanthus on this. TLES has been posting about similar issues for several years and has either had the most tremendously bad luck to run into every single rude/bullying/unreasonable teacher in every school, or is exaggerating for effect.

Veuillez puis-je retirer ma veste (or so DS1 tells me)

I think the teacher was outrageously rude to you, I hope you get an apology