I now know I'm right about little girls and the hijab.....

[PosieComeHereMyPreciousParker]

talking to a beautiful Somali lady today(they all have hollywood smiles don't they, bloody genetic miracles!!) and she confirmed that whilst her 5 & 7 year old dds don't cover their heads she gets harassed and pressured by men at the mosque that her dds should cover. She said that whilst she doesn't because she loves her dds hair, other women do cover their very young dds. She said the men also say that unless they do it from very young they will not do it when they are the right age!

So it's not only about copying Mummy, just like the rise of the burka it's a renewed stick to beat women with.

I'm off. One last thing, because history has been rewritten. If anyone wants to do the Spikey this but Spikey that thing, don't resurrect me on the basis of others posts. Read pages 11 and 12 first, and you will see my identity was, IN ACTUAL FACT, questionned. And identity, the right of people to call themselves what they choose, was the basis of one of my arguments. The others were that British Born and English mean different things, and that people don't become English just because they were born here AS WAS SUGGESTED IN BLACK AND WHITE.
Now flame away, and I'll see you tomorrow when I get my third and hopefully final wind.
I thank you.

spikeycow Mon 18-Oct-10 22:39:54

'What is English blood? Being English, you know, from England, with an English family, who go red in the sun? English, as opposed to B R I T I S H B O R N'

sorry, sounds a bit too BNP to me.

I see the problem here as being that, unusually for a country, we have British and Englishh (or Scottish etc). The French just have French. Personally, I do use British and English interchangeably to refer to my race/heritige. Bad habit maybe but I know I'm not the only one.

Personally, I have always interpreted 'British Indian' as someone who is both British and Indian ie they equate themselves with both. This is distinct from 'British born Indian' where the person equates themselves with Indian only.

My grandmother (born and brought up in India to parents born and brought up in India) would have been mortified to be told she was Anglo-Indian so I do understand the point. I certainly do not consider my son to be anything but 'British' but he's only one and if he spends his life here he might consider himself British-Qatari or English-Qatari (unlikely for various reasons but possible). If I had not returned to the UK when I was 11 I'm sure I would have considered myself a Hong Konger.

Spikey, you can identify with Italian if you want. Fine by me. We obviously have very different 'real lives' because I know a lot of people who would be equally insulted to be told they were not English/British (as well as their blood country) and instead only 'British born'.

Happy to agree to differ. Don't think anyone's persuading anyone else of anything here!

but basically spikey is saying only white people can be english as it's all to do with that unpolluted 'english blood'. Sorry Spikey, but I find many of your views offensive and Alf Garnett like.

When I see yet another thread by Posie whining about Muslims and the fabric some of us wear, I can't believe it's 2010 either.

Get a life woman.

TSC....you really use the word 'slag boots' for shiny boots for children?

And what about loathing, because I'm an intelligent woman living in 2010, religious practices that punish women makes me a bigot?

Your posts do allow people to conjure the image of someone pretty rough, is that on purpose?

You are stooopid then. And haven't read the thread properly.
Yes, I'm BNP. With my Muslim children, black godchildren. I'd better tell them so they can cut me off.
And I find you racist also fasted. As you think people born here should consider themselves English and dilute their culture. Deny it if you want, that's what I think, or there wouldn't have been all the questionning the other night.

I don't think I've read anything that spikey has written that makes her sound BNP. I've never met anyone whose parents are second generation anything that consider themselves English, British maybe, third maybe.

there does seem to be many posters that like to flash around the 'bigot' card as soon as cultural/religious issues arise. People are allowed to express concerns and observations about these issues without hating the people that participate.

And do you believe English peoples blood is polluted then? That's racist too.

"The French just have French."

No they don't. They have Corsicans, Bretons, Alsatians...

007alert Tue 19-Oct-10 22:51:01
OP. you say ".I am anti organised religion in it's entirety so it's no skin off my nose."

So you wouldn't send your children to a religious school then?

Gasp....perhaps I should have not allowed them to go to the only school available?

Thanks Posie. Our views are different on some things, but at least you have common sense.
These are just idiots living in a bubble, who like to speak for people they have no experience of. My friends who are mixed heritage find this thread hilarious. They'll love the BNP accusation

@Posie - 'because I'm an intelligent woman living in 2010, religious practices that punish women makes me a bigot?'

So women who choose to cover up are not intelligent? Hmmm...i'm sure that there are many muslim women out there who would beg to differ!

The hijab is not a religious practice that punishes a woman - it actually liberates them - maybe you should spend a bit more time with those people that actually wear one (out of choice) and then make an informed and 'intelligent' comment - might make other people think you're less of a bigot?

Nope....I don't think you have to be stupid to cover, as religion and the way it controls women is nothing to do with intellect. What exactly can women be liberated from? What restrictions does hair put upon a woman?

And before you come with the "just because this and that you can still be racist". Er, no. In the real world, where I live, racists may have one or 2 black friends that are alright in their eyes but they don't mix with others. They still tell jokes etc. That doesn't apply to me. I was raised in Tottenham and my friends are a diverse bunch, from varying places.
You think I'm one of those people that asks "where are you from" don't you? HA HA HA. I am not in any way ignorant of "cultural" issues. Will ask some more British born people today if they are English, just to laugh at you some more. YOU are the ignorant one.

And fasty it was you that said you didn't think I was a bigot, after all comments were made?
You are also racist against the English, saying they don't exist,have no separate identity they can call their own. Yet you won't take it to RL. You have called them polluted. Which also implies the people who polluted them are "dirty" in some way. Lovely. Go and find an Englishman, who is proud to be English, and tell him. Then go and find a British born Jamacian and tell them they are English instead. LOL

Not a big fan of religion huh?...let me guess, you're also not a great fan of rules or anything that sets out any sort structure either?

It's not hair that puts restriction on women - it's the attitude of society. It's a well known fact that people judge you by your appearence, and hair is a big part of that. You only need to count the number of times you see a woman swish her hair on an advert on tv (and say 'you're worth it' :) )to get the point. What's liberating is not having to be judged on appearence but purely on what you know / what you're like (that's the theory - but unfortnately many poeple such as yourself seem to have negative connotations attached to the hijab now that it proves all that more difficult).

Addicted.....that';s like saying a Golly is just a doll. The hijab was constructed to help men avoid their lusting temptation....bad woman with your hair. Society in the West has evolved differently and we don't put the onus on a woman for a man's behaviour. (rape stats aside)

And your guess is wrong, structure and rules are fine by me....just not control that relies on belief in something that isn't there.

Well that's a whole different ball game - if you don't have faith, of course you're not going to understand anything that comes from faith.

In that case maybe you should have made your thread a bit more general dealing with all aspects of 'religious indoctrination' instead of just the hijab (although it's easy to understand why you picked on the hijab as its such a 'visible' target).

hijab on little girls.

hijab on anyone from your previous posts - but that just semantics.

Have just clarified that "blood" is important to the Turkish culture.
So now, go to a second generation Turk and call them English. Go and dismiss their heritage and everything they believe in to their face.
Now you will come and say, again, that you don't care what people call themselves. But you do, because you keep insisting they call themselves English or British instead (not understanding the difference between the 2). Maybe you should examine why you want second and third generations to identify with England instead of their ethnic origin, before you start flinging accusations of racism around.

On page 10 I was told it's strange I'm insulted to be called British, when I said I was Italian British born and would be insulted to be called ENGLISH, because it dismisses my right to call myself what i want. So here we have people reading each others posts,and getting it twisted and wrong, thereby fueling the fire.
Pointless. If you are going to accuse people of bigotry, read the posts by that person, rather than getting caught up in all the imaginary bigot fishing.

It was then insinuated my Dad isn't really Italian either . This thread, TBH, is just middle class entitlement gone way, way, out of control.