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Original poster

To be stunned....babies feel no pain statement.

211 replies

salsmum · 12/10/2010 22:01

I work as a carer and a lovely lady who I work with told me that her grandson was circumcised a week ago (part of their religion) at 4 weeks old, by a priest and although hes still a bit sore its better to have it done when they are little because babies don't feel pain Shock.
Having 2 kids who are now adults I'm afraid I'm inclined to disagree with her.
I'd like to clearly state that I'm not against circumcision for what ever reason I just find it strange that she should think that babies dont feel pain Confused.

OP posts:
lennon80 · 13/10/2010 17:43

But your argument is flawed Colditz because many Americans who do it are Christian..so make your mind up..is it cultural or health and hygenie?

colditz · 13/10/2010 17:45

No boy is born without a foreskin.

If your child was born with a body part just like every other male child's in the world, wouldn't you want to have that taken off? No, no I wouldn't, not at all.

A foreskin is nor a growth. It is not a disability. It doesn't need to be corrected, it's correct from day one. Mass mutilation does not turn a body part into a tumour.

booooooooooyhoo · 13/10/2010 17:45

i don't think you understand what people are saying lennon.

colditz · 13/10/2010 17:46

It's culturally American - in America. It has been believed to be for hygiene, a belief which clearly prevails, but has been rendered redundant upon the happy advent of daily showers.

grapeandlemon · 13/10/2010 17:46

I have heard so many justifications for mutilating babies healthy penises over the years - HIV, culture, cleanliness (always as washing with soap and water usually works for that one). But to do it because you enjoy sex more with a man who has been circumcised and they can last longer really reaches a new depth.

colditz · 13/10/2010 17:48

Now that it has been irrefutably proven to you that women do not prefer circumcised penises, and also it has been proven to you that paediatrcians do not support neonatal circumcision, and it has been proven to you that circumcision was first practised as a 'promise (covenant) to god', and not as a way of preventing nobs rotting off - why are you having it done? What is your reason, Lennon?

lennon80 · 13/10/2010 17:49

Boooyhooo because they still knew old smegma was unhygienic with or without scientific definitions. Bacteria were first observed around the date you gave but people still knew for example that food will rot due to bacteria and so were preserving food with salt etc ..just because microscopes didnt exist it doesnt mean people didnt understand the need for hygiene

colditz · 13/10/2010 17:50

And now the need for hygiene has been met with daily showering with soap - so why are you circumcising your son?

pickledbabe · 13/10/2010 17:51

anyway, it doesn't make men last longer.
what makes men last longer is practice.

MoonUnitAlpha · 13/10/2010 17:51

Foreskins are meant to be there! Cutting it off because you can't be arsed to bathe your baby and you have a sexual preference for circumcised penises is bizarre.

Some people have sexual fetishes for stumps from amputated limbs btw - how about removing a hand at birth? Then you wouldn't have to bother cutting his fingernails either.

pickledbabe · 13/10/2010 17:52

ooh, you could pull his fingernails out by the roots! then you wouldn't have to worry about cleaning them. much more hygienic.

Miasma · 13/10/2010 17:52

You could just teach your son to wash Lennon ?

lennon80 · 13/10/2010 17:52

It hasnt fifty percent of Americans are still being circumcised.

It certainly has not been 'irrefutably proven' that wome do not refer uncircumised penises because two people on fucking mums net get a bee in their bonnet over it. Yeah hard based evidence that is.

It also has not been proven to me that paediatricians do not support it...many do! There is still a great deal of evidence based researched that is academically peer reviewed (not just some crap you have gotten from google searches) that clearly highlight the benefits especially in relation to HIV transmission.

lennon80 · 13/10/2010 17:55

You know what I cant be bothered to argue with you because you people here resort to insults rather than listening to my reasoning. You are not prepared to engage in a proper debate but you all gang up like a clan of witches who think you know better than a huge percentage of people who choose to have it done. I dont condemn your decision to leave your son with a foreskin as it is not my business and I am sure you have your reasons. I equally have mine.

booooooooooyhoo · 13/10/2010 17:55

ok lennon, well, if people were so concerned about bacteria way back in teh day, why didn't they cut out their tongues as standard practice at birth?

LynetteScavo · 13/10/2010 17:57

Culturally American and upper class (upper middle class?) English.

It wasn't that long ago that it was generally beleived babies didn't feel pain. OP's freind is still probably of this old school of thinking, which is convenient if babies in the family are going to be circumsised. Old wives tales being passed down.

lennon80 Tue 12-Oct-10 23:36:01
" People often ask me why I am having my son circumcised when we are both atheists ... If they had been with men with and without a foreskin I highly doubt they would even need to ask me the question."

I disagree. Neither of my sons are circumsised.

colditz · 13/10/2010 18:00

Orrrrr you could teach your son to take a bath and use a condom instead of cutting buts off him.

ORRRRR you could wait until he is twelve, and say "Hey son, here are some fantastic articles about your penis. I want to take you to the hospital and have bits cut off it. How do you feel about that?"

And then, if you have given him the truly fantastic articles that you sy you have seen, that completely refute everything I have pulled of Google, he should agree with you right? And will happily get in the car to have pieces of skin cut off his penis.

If it is such a very important thing to have done, why on earth would he refuse, gievn a choice?

Or perhaps you feel he would refuse? Perhaps you can't produce such empirical evidence that would convince anyone to have pieces cut off their penis? Perhaps you are worried that if you give him a choice, he will choose not to?

Perhaps it's not as important as you have always thought, if a rational twelve year old would choose not to ... of course, if he DOES choose to, you could be happy in the knowledge that he had a choice and you got your own way. You can pat yourself on the back.

If you do it now, and he gets to twelve, or 20, or 45, and says to you "Why did you cut pieces of me off? What the Hell is wrong with you that I wasn't perfect enough for you?" - what are you going to say then?

Miasma · 13/10/2010 18:00

Teach him to wash and teach him about safe sex then?

Don't chop his foreskin of to please your own asthetic ideal.

Ive got a fuking bee in my bonnet at the fought of a poor defenseless newborn coming in to the world perfect and being mutilated because his mum thinks it looks better.

It broke my heart when my babies had to have procedures, seeing them in pain used to make me cry.

I cannot imagine putting them through pain to please myself.

colditz · 13/10/2010 18:02

I have not insulted you. I have presented you with hasty research, some facts, some logic and some alternative ways of getting your own way. You seem to be crosser about that than the insults!

diddl · 13/10/2010 18:04

Is it possible to have a baby circumcised without a religious or medical reason?

booooooooooyhoo · 13/10/2010 18:05

you know what, based on your posts assuming that only women who have never had sex with circumcised man would prefer a foreskin and that when "People often ask me why I am having my son circumcised when we are both atheists ... If they had been with men with and without a foreskin I highly doubt they would even need to ask me the question."

i get the impression that lennon thinks she is uniques in being with a circumcised man and that it is the uniqueness (in her mind) of being circumcised taht is appealing to her in her decision to do it to her son, and not these 'health' reasons at all.

just my opinion though.

lennon80 · 13/10/2010 18:05

But that is the whole point he wont say that, he will thank me for having it done when he was a baby as he will know the benefits himself.

Why on earth do you act like I am doing it to hurt my baby. I am doing it because I fully believe it is in his best interests.

My husband is very pleased he is circumcised and would never be asking his mother those questions..so what makes you think my son would?

diddl · 13/10/2010 18:07

My husband is circumcised & yes I prefer it, but neither of us ever dreamt of doing this to our son.

It is his decision to make.
(And he has decided no)

colditz · 13/10/2010 18:12

If you are so sure he will be happy about it, why not wait? Or do you seriuosly believe that ancient claptrap about babies not feeling pain?

colditz · 13/10/2010 18:13

or, maybe he will believe what the vast majority of people in this country believe, that there are NO benefits to circumcising a tiny infant, and that as you have no religious or cultural reason for doing so, you must have has massive issues with his penis?