To be stunned....babies feel no pain statement.

[salsmum]

I work as a carer and a lovely lady who I work with told me that her grandson was circumcised a week ago (part of their religion) at 4 weeks old, by a priest and although hes still a bit sore its better to have it done when they are little because babies don't feel pain .
Having 2 kids who are now adults I'm afraid I'm inclined to disagree with her.
I'd like to clearly state that I'm not against circumcision for what ever reason I just find it strange that she should think that babies dont feel pain .

As far as I understand it, new babies are just a mass of new and raw nerves, so saying they don't feel pain/suffer is just ridiculous. All those bright lights! Cold, and all those sensations on their skin rather than warm, soft amniotic fluid! Loud and sharp noises, not the muffled booming in the womb! Poor things. When DS was born, I felt so sorry for him because it seemed as though the whole world was discomfort for him. It didn't seem to be possible to actually make him happy until he was a months or so old, maybe even 2 months. Until then, he was upset, seemed serious or was asleep!

deadponcy i ahd to laugh when you said 'serious'. my ds1 had mastered the look by the end of day 1. i am sure he was just lying there for months thinking "where the fuck am i and why is it so loud/bright/cold etc?"

booooooooyhoo,

".... although the milk's quite good. Better than that thin salty crap I was drinking in the womb!"

My bro was circumcised, by a rabbi, at a few weeks old.

It hurts.

sorry, that was at deadponcy.

I bet back in the days when doctors claimed newborns couldn't feel pain mothers knew they damn well did.

Don't know why people make these ridiculous assumptions. Slightly different but I've heard a few people claiming in previous centuries parents weren't emotionally attached to children because so many used to die in childhood. Nuts. You can't assume that because one thing is true (lots of children dying young) another thing you've just made up is true. Any anyone who bothered to check, by looking at diaries and letters left by 18th or 19th century parents, would realise it's just ridiculous. Poor parents were distraught when their children died, just as you would be today.

My son was circumcised when he was 10 days old under local anesthesia by a doctor.

We wanted to do it as soon as possible as a cry young baby doesn't move much and recovers really quick.

My son came out, had a feed and that was it. He didn't even seem to notice or seem in any way uncomfortable/unhappy.

I would much rather have it done to a baby than a child who i think will feel it a lot more.

edam - I know of someone who had open-torso surgery as a newborn several decades ago. No anaesthetic.

Unimaginable.

No they certainly feel it alright..but its well well worth it. To suggest a baby cant feel pain is just madness..lol.

People often ask me why I am having my son circumcised when we are both atheists ... If they had been with men with and without a foreskin I highly doubt they would even need to ask me the question.

Are there benefits from circumcision?

There are several:

1 Many older men, who have bladder or prostate gland problems, also develop difficulties with their foreskins due to their surgeon's handling, cleaning, and using instruments. Some of these patients will need circumcising. Afterwards it is often astonishing to find some who have never ever seen their glans (knob) exposed before!

2 Some older men develop cancer of the penis - about 1 in 1000 - fairly rare, but tragic if you or your son are in that small statistic. Infant circumcision gives almost 100% protection, and young adult circumcision also gives a large degree of protection.

3 Cancer of the cervix in women is due to the Human Papilloma Virus. It thrives under and on the foreskin from where it can be transmitted during intercourse. An article in the British Medical Journal in April 2002 suggested that at least 20% of cancer of the cervix would be avoided if all men were circumcised. Surely that alone makes it worth doing?

4 Protection against HIV and AIDS. Another British Medical Journal article in May 2000 suggested that circumcised men are 8 times less likely to contract the HIV virus. (It is very important here to say that the risk is still far too high and that condoms and safe sex must be used - this applies also to preventing cancer of the cervix in women who have several partners.)

A BBC television programme in November 2000 showed two Ugandan tribes across the valley from one another. One practised circumcision and had very little AIDS, whereas, it was common in the other tribe, who then also started circumcising. This programme showed how the infection thrived in the lining of the foreskin, making it much easier to pass on.

5 As with HIV, so some protection exists against other sexually transmitted infections. Accordingly, if a condom splits or comes off, there is some protection for the couple. However, the only safe sex is to stick to one partner or abstain.

6 Lots of men, and their partners, prefer the appearance of their penis after circumcision, It is odour-free, it feels cleaner, and they enjoy better sex. Awareness of a good body image is a very important factor in building self confidence.

7 Balanitis is an unpleasant, often recurring, inflammation of the glans. It is quite common and can be prevented by circumcision.

8 Urinary tract infections sometimes occur in babies and can be quite serious. Circumcision in infancy makes it 10 times less likely.

Lennon80, plenty of men question circumcision.

1. That's weird - are you saying that men should be circumcised because surgeons are a bit crap at prostate operations? How many surgeons? How many men?

1. It's not an undisputed fact that circumcision prevents penile cancer. A study in countries with low circumcision rates compared to the US which has a high circ rate showed similar penile cancer prevalence.

3, 4, 5. It is a comfort to me that there is some evidence of health benefit to my son from having been circumcised. None of these claims are undisputed, however, and some say that the sense of safety from being circumcised can make people more likely to have unsafe sex, which gives less protection than safe sex + intact foreskin.

1. This is highly subjective. Better sex? Says who? Are you really saying htat we should chop bits of babies because they look more streamlined as a result? Some may prefer the look of a circumcised penis - any person who chooses a partner on that basis doesn't deserve the uncircumcised men they reject IMO.

1. I believed balanitis was quite rare, in fact.

1. UTIs can be a complication of circumcision.

sorry lennon i don't think the future pleasure of any partners or appearnce of a man's penis should be a factor at all when choosing to circumcise a child who has absoloutely no say in the matter. the health reasons are valid.

i think tsc it may be because of the sexual aspect of the penis (obviously not in children but people do tend to still hold that in the back of their mind).

I'm not making myself clear at all. what i mean is, that because the penis , in adulthood, is a sexual organ, many people are uncomfortable with it being 'interfered' with, especially when the child is too young to have a say.

YANBU. How does this lady explain colic in young babies? Pretty sure that hurts!

Winter

I find AIBU is the absolute worst in this respect. It helps me a lot to hide the entire topic.

Leave people to it...I love your name btw.

Regarding the thread, it's a ridiculous statement and I hope you set her straight.

Dd2 had to have a second lot of heel prick tests due to medication I was on. As she bawled the nurse said 'it doesn't hurt, she just doesn't like that I am restraining her leg' which is word for word what the mw said first time - obviously a line they are taught to give anxious new mothers!

Interesting- there has been a study in the news recently about premature babies not feeling pain until a certain stage, may have been about 24 weeks? I know some mums of 23 weekers who I'm sure would disagree. My DS was 27 weeks and very tiny for dates, he definitely felt pain and discomfort from the very beginning despite sedation and pain relief.

It's it because you're taking a normal healthy penis and chopping a bit off it - with tongue tie you're taking a tongue with a problem and turning it into a normal healthy tongue - it isn't just breastfeeding, tongue tie interferes with talking too.

I prefer uncircumcised penises for sex, by the way.

Was wondering how long it would take to turn into a circumcision thread.

WinterOfOurDiscountTents: "But animals don't feel pain in the same way as humans. its not unreasonable to say that babies don't feel pain in the exact same way as adults or older children do."

How so? They have a central nervous system the same as us. Read some Peter Singer on the subject.

I was watching an interesting documentary following a lady through her pregnancy the other day - the consultant was suggesting that the neural pathways are in place quite early on (I'm almost sure he said 10 weeks) and that foetuses respond to stimuli at that point - so a new born baby is going to have some ability to feel pain.

When my DS had his tonguetie snipped at 2 wo, he was given a spoonful of sucrose solution and a drop of novocaine on the tonguetie to numb it - he didn't utter a whimper and fed straight after no probs. But if he hadn' had the novocaine, it might have been a bit different!