to be suspicious of freemasons?

[wheelsonthefeckingbus]

My brother is a member and wants DH to join. Dh isn't interested anyway, but I did have a bit of a debate with DB recently. The problem is that because it is a secretive society, it's very hard to get ammunition to argue.

Would it be true to say that they are

elistist? after all only certain people can join.
nepotistic? there is an element of "helping" each other - ie. members of that elite
patriarchal? although women can join a separate group
homophobic?
have some sort of mumbo jumbo religious element?

DB say that they "do a lot for charity" but he doesn't have to join a secret society and roll up his trouser leg to be charitable.

Any comments?

YANBU.

Def the first three, not sure about last two.

My dads in the freemason's and they do actually do a lot of charity work, he's definately not homophobic a member of our family is gay and he love's him to bits.... Not sure what they get up to but my father wouldn't hurt a soul is a lovely person so I'm sure it just a night out for the boys.. I do wonder if he rolls his trouser leg up though

Elitist? Nepotistic? ... So what? - loads of groups both formal and informal can be accused of this.

Patriarchal - again - so what? Loads of groups are only open to women (DH gets annoyed that he is not invited to our book group).

Homophobic - not sure this is true. Why would they be?

Mumbo Jumbo - yes, I think that they have a lot of Mumbo Jumbo. But again so what? - let them get on with it.

I think I am going to do my first ever

I guess I am suspicious of anyone who is suspicious of the freemasons.

They have been the subject of countless conspiracy theories over the years and I think that they are just a group of men who want an evening out now and again with their mates.

They look after/out for each other. Pre welfare state they were very important for their members......paid for hospital treatment, looked after widows and orphans of fellow masons.

In the past many policemen were involved. This is not so acceptable nowdays!

Lots of business people around here are involved and, it is rumoured (shall we say!) they can be relied upon for help with planning applications etc.

I don't think they are all bad! They do do good works etc. The ones I know are also involved in local councils, (parish and borough), and into local politics. In this area most are conservatives but in other areas this may not be the case.

My grandad was a freemason - very working class so I doubt it's elitist as such and it certainly didn't move him up the "social ladder". It MAY have helped him get jobs but that's more about helping fellow freemasons and I'm speculating wildly.
That's not to say it doesn't work in an elitist way for others though.
Policeman,judges or anyone working in law should never be freemasons IMO (but I'll bet some are) because of potential compromising situations.
There was a book written about freemasonry a while back amidst a bit of a furore because it exposed the initiation stuff etc.
Personally I suspect it's more the fact that it's secret that gives it a negative connotation rather than anything they actually do.
I may be wrong but wasn't Isaac Newton a freemason? And some other famous scientists?

I haven't seen any evidence that they're homophobic.

I agree with Sullwah, I think if you want to be part of a group then go for it, I always wanted to have my own gang like the secret seven, I think as long as people aren't hurting anyone then go for it..

My Dad and Grandfathers are/were Masons. My Mum is a member of the womens version.

Yes there are rituals etc. Yes only women can join but there is no barrier in regards to race, religion or sexual orientation.

They do a hell of a lot of charity work. Look at the Royal Masonic Schools here in the UK. Send the children of Masonic widows (as well as other children with social and family problems) to school for free.

Lots of organisations have rituals. Even Brownies does.

rofl at the brownies.

But if they are "helping their own" whether through charity or business connections, isn't this a form of elitism? Why not be charitable to the whole community?

I am delighted to have received my first ever !

I think the people that start the rumours about the freemason really want to be in " the gang" but have never been asked so get all snarky and make stuff up, maybe they should start their own secret club.... the more I type about secret clubs, the more I feel I'm back at school..... speaking of which time for the school run.

YABU. They're harmless. My Dad was a freemason. They do a lot of good work and when dad was recuperating from an operation he spent time in a convalescent home run by them. Members also visited him when he became very ill. They are not sinister/elitist/homophobic or any other -ic or -ist imo.

I'm sure many masons are lovely people.
But it's not like the Womens Institue, probably more like a posh golf club. Ordinary people can become members, but most will have money and 'contacts'.

My objection is that I can't make up my mind because it is a secret society. Or to quote DB: "Not a secret society, but a society with secrets." The Brownies may have their own rituals but they are not carried out behind closed doors.

Order of the Eastern Star. That is what the womens section is called. Although you have to wear all white (including shoes). My mum calls it the ORder of the Evil Sisters.

White can be so draining. Not a good look. Particularly if your DCs are as messy as mine.

My Dad was a freemason for many years. He's become an Orthodox Christian in recent years though so is no longer a freemason.

They weren't elitist at all as far as I could tell. I went along with my Dad to many of their functions, helped with charity work, was my Dad's +1 at Ladies' Night etc. They do look after their own, yes. When one of my dad's friends was widowed, the freemasons took on the responsibility of making sure the children were looked after until adulthood. I've read most of my Dad's old freemasonry texts. They're no more worrying than any other society and oft misunderstood.

The bit about freemasonary that I find tricky is the potential for feeling obliged to give work to your fellow masons. For instance, I knew someone who was looking for a PR firm. He was considering two applicants he'd previously worked with - both of whom had subsequently set up on their own. He was leaning towards the female candidate when the male candidate invited him to join his lodge (I think that's the right terminology). Oddly, there was a volte face and the male candidate immediately got the business. The female contender said it had happened too many times for her to be entirely sanguine about the situation.

On a positive note, I can confirm (from observing the behaviour of a friend who was a mason) that they do take very good care of members' families.

Oh ... I should say that when I asked why the change in decision, he wouldn't give me any reason and appeared decidedly awkward and uncomfortable ... something that wasn't typical of him.

A similar problem occurs when a 'brother' who is a builder/delevloper is in the same lodge as another 'brother' on the county council planning committee.

Freemasonry is not secretive, it's esoteric.

Its rituals encourage reflection, which has a big part in Freemasonry given their core thought that only you can change/educate yourself ("shape your own stone"). Things taken out of context like rolled up trouser leg etc can sound ridiculous but are part of a theatrical narrative and ritual.

I thought they weren't religious but you do have to believe in a god to join. Not any specific god. Just a god. I remember reading that on a website made by the masons once - I think it was them.

I can't decide if I'm suspicious of them or not, but I don't think any society or group were others are excluded and you, for example, have more chance of getting a job somewhere because of your membership, is a good thing. I remember too reading that at one time (recently) most of the doctors at St Guys or St Thomas hospital in London were freemasons and if you weren't you didn't stand a chance of promotion. Can't remember where on earth I read that though so I don't know if it is true or not.