to be suspicious of freemasons?

[wheelsonthefeckingbus]

My brother is a member and wants DH to join. Dh isn't interested anyway, but I did have a bit of a debate with DB recently. The problem is that because it is a secretive society, it's very hard to get ammunition to argue.

Would it be true to say that they are

elistist? after all only certain people can join.
nepotistic? there is an element of "helping" each other - ie. members of that elite
patriarchal? although women can join a separate group
homophobic?
have some sort of mumbo jumbo religious element?

DB say that they "do a lot for charity" but he doesn't have to join a secret society and roll up his trouser leg to be charitable.

Any comments?

I don't know the answer, but would like to hear yours.

sounds to me that the freemasons have been alerted to this thread and are doing a little PR.

Surrey - What makes you think there were originally 360 degrees? Or that Freemasonry is based on an Egyptian organization with 360 degrees?

(I hope you are not going to recite Alan Watt)

Thanks Chrispt. I did ask during an open day at a lodge a few years ago but didn't get much of an answer and I have to say I had to conclude that the freemasons make the worst tour guides ever - perfectly pleasant but not exactly busting a gut to volunteer details!

You aren't allowed to be in the Police if you are a mason. Speaks volumes.

CoteDaZur - I have never heard of Alan Watt.

As for my claim, prove that it was not. Actually CoteDaZur, if you can prove it was not, then you will actually have done the impossible. I am even prepared write you a cheque for any £1000** if you are successful.

(**1000 to represent roughly the number of authors who have written about Freemasonary basing its ideologies on Egyptian mysteries).

Saultanpepper - I am happy to tell you the answer, but I will give all the Freemasons a chance to do so.

SA

ASecretLemonadeDrinker - is that a new rule re the police, as I knew someone who was in both

Possibly.

The masons I know are dirty little seedy men. They all swing together too. Sexist, lazy worms. They make my skin crawl. Masons are a joke. You don't need to be some secret little overgrown boyscout society to 'do good'.

No answer to the question posed by SA? I'm curious now.

Apologies ? that should read I am even prepared write you a cheque for £1000

@ A.Orange - Not really a new rule per se. What happened is that in the 1980's, a scandal that broke out years ago when it was revealed that Freemasons made up a good majority of the Police force and were the sole cause of extremely high levels of corruption (extortion, taking bribes, colluding with criminals, leniency on their ?brothers? etc). They acted like the mafia but with badges. It?s more of a PR exercise than anything else.

However, it's bollocks really, and you'd be hardpressed to find a high ranking Politician, Police Officer, or anyone in power that is not a Freemason.

SA

"As for my claim, prove that it was not"

Huh?

Sorry CoteDaZur, I am a little bit absentminded tonight, so not being articulate. I asked you to provide clear evidence that Freemasons did not base their fraternaty's ideologies on Egyptian mysteries.

(By mysteries I mean beliefs, rituals, prayers, and most importantly, their deities. If you are familiar with these then it should be relatively easy to provide said evidence).

Hope this is clearer.

Thanks,

SA

YANBU

I really dislike the masons - for far too long it was the way to ensure promotion in the police and that has to be wrong on every level.

I know police officers that are masons. As a Rotarian I have had dealings with masons and - prepare yourselves - they are perfectly normal people who join a society for a social life and to do some charity work.

People think that Rotary is also a "funny" organisation. I think it just goes to prove that people are just mistrustful of things they don't understand as all we do is raise money for charity

My ExH was a Freemason. He had a special black briefcase for going to the meetings that I was Not Allowed To Touch.

We were forced to live together for a few months after we split, so of course I forced it open first chance I got.

It was full of playstation games - don't know if that says anything about Freemasons generally or just him!

As far as I understood it, lots of businessy-type things go on there.

So next time you turn on the TV and find a business conference such as EXPO absolutely FULL of male business-people, and just a tiny amount of women, whose main purpose is to be decorative i.e to advertise the merchandise, then ask yourself: HOW is this still happening in 2010? How is it that men absolutely rule supreme in politics and business?

I would say that sneaky freemason type shennanigens are just the tip of the iceberg when it comes to patriarchy. Those pesky men are not going to let women get any real power without a massive fight.

PMSL Kelziz.
I think that's all part of it, the psychology behind elitism, and patriarchy.

They know how fragile the system is that keeps men above women in ALL areas of society. The only way to keep the status quo in place is by using smokes and mirrors, pretending power is in one place when really it's somewhere else.

Every walk of life will have those who are less than savoury.

There was reports of corruption with possible links to freemasonry in the 80's. Although the verdict came back that there was no connection, this often fuelled the conspiracy theorists.

Everyone has the right to their opinions and i'm sorry that some people have only experienced the bad in something that has helped so many(masonic and non-masonic).

Some masons take the secrecy more seriously than others. In the UK im not aware of any masonic order that use any 360 degree Egyptian ritual. However, that's not to say there isn't one in another country and i'm simply not aware.

The 33 degrees are in a side order called Rose Croix. I'm not a member so don't know huge amounts about it. But, i've got most of my info from just searching "Rose Croix"

I don't feel like i've been corrupted by some evil scumbag elitist secret society. I just enjoy the banter, the history and meeting different people. It's something i have in common with over 1 million men and women in Britain.

but I thought women weren't allowed to join the freemasons?
You're not telling me there's some sort of "wives" group been set up in order to justify this exclusion

Also disagree that every walk of life will have those less than savoury.
'less than savoury' people will be attracted to particular walks of life (the catholic church, for example) I'm not comparing the masons to the catholic church, I'm just saying that unsavoury types can cluster, and then not appear in other walks of life.

'believes in a supreme being (god, if you prefer; note small 'g')'

Why the small g?

Why the Bible? (and what version)

Why is no reference to Jesus permitted?

Fibilou its absolutely not to do with being mistrustful.

I was married to a policeman and then went out with another for some years. If you wanted promotion, you HAD to be in the masons. It really was that simple. The second guy I am talking about joined solely for that reason. Most masons of course arent so open about it, but he was. Its not just about promotion either.....

Charity my backside. They have actually raised very little for a bunch of millionaires. I daresay CAFOD/Christian aid etc. raise more, without the boy scout behaviour. Ladies night?! They throw women the crumbs. It's not what they can do for you, it's what can you do for them.

Raising money for charity= Good

Being cloaked in secrecy = either totally pointless as they have nothing to hide, or creepy cos we don't know what it is their hiding.

that's my two cents

I only know one Mason and he is a policeman, so I don't think that can be true