to be suspicious of freemasons?

[wheelsonthefeckingbus]

My brother is a member and wants DH to join. Dh isn't interested anyway, but I did have a bit of a debate with DB recently. The problem is that because it is a secretive society, it's very hard to get ammunition to argue.

Would it be true to say that they are

elistist? after all only certain people can join.
nepotistic? there is an element of "helping" each other - ie. members of that elite
patriarchal? although women can join a separate group
homophobic?
have some sort of mumbo jumbo religious element?

DB say that they "do a lot for charity" but he doesn't have to join a secret society and roll up his trouser leg to be charitable.

Any comments?

(love the Hallowe'en name SGB -- and also the irony in your acknowledgment of the feast of All Hallows' Eve)

Where is the evidence to back up your belief/opinion, SBSUB?

Years ago my parents were invited to a function that was being held at the local Masonic Hall. An hour or so before it was due to start they received a phone call saying would they stay away as my Dad is Catholic

So, to all those people who defend it on the grounds it is a charitable or esoteric or other bollocks organisation, let me say this. The freemasons are a bunch of fucking bastards

In a place I once lived the old Masonic Hall was rented out to the Society of Pius X, a group excommunicated by the RC Church. 'The enemy of my enemy is my friend' was the thought that sprang to many minds.

Fair point, SBSUB, but no evidence they don't either.

That's weird, *jonicomelately. Catholicism seems to reject the masons but hadn't heard of the other way round.

jonicomelately
freemasons are not anti catholic. The catholic church is anti freemason.
I speak as a catholic with a freemason dad (complicated!)

Wotfb I really wouldn't worry, my DH is a mason, I too was a bit before I knew anyone there and what they did.
It really is just a boys club with silly rituals, DH gets a bit bored of the meetings but goes along to keep in touch with his pals.
They are very good if you need anything, when one of the guy's wives died they were a pillar of support.
I've not noticed any benefit from DH joining other than we've met some really lovely people but I suppose the reason folk think it opens doors is that you meet people you might not in your ordinary life - thats all it is!
It won't do your DH any harm, but prob won't do him much good either (in terms of leg up/favours)
Oh and ladies nights are rubbish as most of them are about 70!

Whilst a catholic, my dad wasn't anti-freemason (although he is now )

I can assure those who've said otherwise that on this occassion the masons were undoubtedly anti-catholic

What gets me is that my dad joined 20 years ago and they didn't help him when he was made redundant. It wasn't all jobs-for-the-boys, he scrimped and saved to pay his subs (£100 minimum a year) and for what he paid in he's got very little back. Now they have bypassed him in his "job" there, promoted someone else to Worshipful Master so my dads quit. Dont blame him.

Now DH has since joined and it's all he and my dad talk about, I've banned them talking about in in my presence so they go into the garden!! :o

DH seems to be far too much into it all for my liking, at one point he'd joined 4 lodges and was out 8 times a month (practise and meetings) and the subs were ridiculously high, so I asked him to reduce it all to once a month.
(When he starts talking about it, I'm sorry but i am not supportive. I am so bored by it and I tune it out!)

OP no you are YANBU...but then I'm suspicious of every one..

{grin]

Erm dittany there are female Freemasons too, my friend is a member of the female lodge

Yes the ladies night song is a bit sad and cringeworthy.

My uncle was a mason and swore to "Stand knee deep in Catholic blood".

I think the Catholic version of the masons is vile given that Christians are meant to love their neighbours as themselves.

here

Freemasonry is opposed to the Catholic Church as its philosophy is that the one true God is the God revealed in scripture, not whatever you think applies or however you choose to interpret the term 'Architect of the Universe'.

Serin I don't understand your reasoning. Surely you mean the Freemasons' version of the Catholic Church is vile? Do the Catenians want to stand knee deep in blood? The Catholic Church has nothing against individual masons and considers the charitable work of the masons to be laudable there's no desire to stand knee deep in blood on the part of the Catholic Church. There have always been men's societies in the Catholic Church, as well as women's the Knights of Columbus and the Children of Mary being examples. No oaths, no blood, no ritual aside from grace before meals, maybe a prayer to begin a meeting. No knives, no skull and crossbones (what on earth is all that about?)

The real issue is Jesus Christ, the second person of the Trinity, whose deity is denied by Freemasonry.

"I am the way, the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." John 14:6
This is a fundamental tenet of Christianity. There is complete mutual opposition between scripture and the masonic concept of many roads leading up a mountain and all converging at the top.

Freemasons don't swear to "stand knee-deep in Catholic blood". The ignorance on this thread is quite staggering.

And Freemasons don't oppose Catholicism or any other religion. In the English obedience, they do expect members to have some sort of belief in God, but they don't judge individual religions. In fact, there is no discussion of religion in lodges. In French obedience, no belief in God is necessary.

Yes, there are actual female lodges, not just auxiliaries to male lodges. There is a feminine obedience, with its own lodges. There are also mixed lodges.

Serin: are you perhaps referring to the Orange Lodge? That's a big thing here in Scotland and in NI, and they are very anti-catholic.

Bumping with the hope that people on this thread would like to hear from a Freemason.

Hello all,

well said @Saultanpepper.

Im a freemason and again will happily answer any questions.

The big worry people seem to have is the secrecy aspect.

It's only recently started to change and so hasn't filtered into the wider public fully yet.

The secrecy element (passwords/ritual etc)is based on the fact that before recognised and registered qualifications were in place and with many of the populace being illiterate, skills were taught by example. Only when you had achieved a certain expertise, would you be able to progress to the next lesson. This has just been dramatised for use in a social setting and saves us getting our suits dirty.

Secondly and more relevant to todays society- during WW2, the nazi party executed masons along with any other group they felt promoted ideas differing from their own (acceptance of all, regardless of faith, ethnicity, social background or sexuality). Soldiers were told to keep membership a secret and was even included in the official secrets act due to such a high number of soldiers being members.

This is a big reason for it 'going underground'.

Before the war freemasonry was very public. It was a social club involved in community events and members would parade in full regalia.

Also, we're not really meant to ask anyone to join. I have brought in several new brothers without asking them to join. I can talk freely about anything I want but they have to show an interest and ask me. Never wait to be asked to join since it generally doesn't happen that way.

My wife knows my ritual better than i do!!! when im trying to learn my lines, she's the one i rehearse with :)

I hope that has helped and answered some questions.

Hi Chris - thanks for the pm

Ok - there are Masons in the house - anyone want to ask anything?

What's the significance of Hebrew script in the lodges?

It's the original language of the old testament.

Stories from the old testament are used during meetings to teach the values of honesty, upright actions and charity to those in distress.

I went to a lodge that had been relocated to England from India. They had copies of the Guru Granth Sahib (Sikh Holy Text) alongside the Torah (Jewish), Koran(Muslim), Bible (Christian),Kojiki (Shinto) and the Yasna (Zoroastrian).

Due to faith being used to teach, include and unite rather than divide, religion becomes a non-issue. Freemasonry is about being a good person and enjoying the company of anyone who is willing to show kindness to all.

Christian values? Just treating your fellow humans with respect.

(sorry for the length of the post. I was inspired to write after re-reading some of the more violent posts)

Yes, I would like to ask the Freemasons a question;

The origins of Freemasonary can be traced back to Egypt. They adopted their mysteries, and their rituals are based on Egyptian rituals. My question is this, and I have posed this to many Freemasons, (but no one has ever been able to answer it), The original mysteries are based on 360 degrees of knowledge. Freemasonary only goes to 33 degrees. Why?

PS - I know the answer.

Thanks in advance,

SA