to tell my son the truth?

[MuddlePuddle86]

Evening ladies,
Here is my predicament. I know most of you go ott about christmas, however, as born again Christians my dh and I don't want to tell our son about father Christmas, a) because it's lying and b) because we think Christmas is an important celebration in itself.
My mother, also a born again Christian, has said that it isn't fair and I should lead my son down the father Christmas path.
We obviously exchange gifts, but we also sacrifice something to the relevant place (eg a console to the childrens' wing of the hospital etc) and we sacrifice something of use to us that we could do without and someone else can benefit from. My son is only 8 months old but I am seriously considering home schooling, so it's not as if he can "ruin" it for the other children...but I don't feel comfortable with lying about something that is so important to us (this is in no way criticising those of you that do).

To answer your question newwave, yes. That is why it is called faith.
Sorry for the short version but to be honest I can't be bothered to get into these lengthy debating questions. I could tell you the long version and quote bible, give personal testimony etc etc but then I would have to kill you.

TallOrder, fair enough and I truly hope your faith is correct.

Me, I will be an agnostic until I have some proof.

YANBU. It's quite strange that some people think that giving their child a nice chilhood means inventing and carrying out an elaborate errr, untruth. I had a lovely childhood even though I had to make do with only real people in my life .

Mega, a child can talk to there imaginary friends and believe in FC it's the adults who continue to do it who worry me

I don't know why the people who love doing Father Christmas get quite so upset at those people who do not. It's almost evangelistic.

I grew up Christian and Christmas was a fabulous magical time of year full of ritual and family and church special things. Easter too. We knew other families that had the whole Father Christmas and Easter Bunny thing going on, but it wasn't a part of our lives. I don't think our celebrations were any lesser than theirs or vice versa, and think it would be very arrogant for me to insist that other families were wrong, as the people who endorse FC do (all the 'your poor children' stuff).

I'm an atheist now, but still don't do Father Christmas because it seems such an elaborate hoax and I would feel very awkward with it all. Plus in general when my children ask questions I tell them the truth as far as I know it, or if I don't know then I direct them towards someone who does. So it just wouldn't fit in with the way that I parent. They have wonderful imaginations, much as I did as a child, it's just that FC doesn't play any part in that - to be honest I'd much rather they made up their own stories, I'm not sure that FC is that much about imagination as there's such a media push behind it, and so many people think that small children must believe it all - my two have often been spoken to by strangers about FC much more overtly than many religious people have spoken to them about faith, which seems slightly odd to me.

Family traditions are very important I think, but although Father Christmas is obviously delightful to some parents, they should perhaps remember that it isn't compulsory, there are many ways to have a wonderful time together with friends and family and that's what really matters about Christmas.

Yes newwave, quite.

It's possible to play the game of FC without insisting that it's real. Just a fun pretend game like many that children play. I prefer that personally.

The OP did make me smile though. At least you don't have to put up with compulsory teaching that FC is real in schools and people knocking on your day to say "did you know that FC loves you and he really does come down the chimney"

nooka I think that's a great post. You are much more accepting of the differences in family traditions than many posters here.

OH and I grew up believing in FC and our DCs do too. For them (and us!), it's fun, magical and exciting. I'm quite surprised by this thread really as I don't think I've ever come across anyone in RL who doesn't endorse the FC myth for their DCs.

Each to their own.

mega I find your viewpoint a bit intolerant.

WHAT? The Almighty is not computer literate Father Christmas? I crafted the atoms with which your computer is made.

Actually onagar I'm not sure that really is true, many schools do take Father Christmas very seriously, have letter writing and a Santa at the fair, and people always seemed to be telling my children how excited they must be to have FC come, and what had they asked for or been given by him. Which was slightly irritating and I'm fairly "meh" about the whole thing, so not I think hyper sensitive to it.

ds now aged 11 has just told me that he didn't think it made any difference to him that we didn't take that path.

Eeeeek, sorry thealmighty! It's just that I couldn't find you on FB so I sort of assumed. Dreadfully sorry.

Exactly onagar. My DCs make up all sorts of pretend and imaginary games. They pretend to be characters/animals, they pretend they can speak foreign languages, they pretend to be teachers and shop assistants.... I don't really see it as being any different from that. Just make-believe.

OP, are you still around?
Just wanted to lend my support, we have similar thoughts. DH and I are Christians, and we don't teach Father Christmas. I don't think its a Dreadful Thing or anything, jst we'd prefer our children to know that what we say is true, and also don't want to buy too much into the FC thing for anti-mnaterialism reasons. Don't have a big issue with FC on and of itself, but really not a fan of the writing letters and telling FC what you want him to buy, recieving truck loads of gifts costing 100s of pounds etc.

We do gifts (3 each child - as per 3 gifts from wise men), and they get a little stocking full of sweets. All from Mum and Dad. We decorate the house with a beautiful wooden nativity, christmas tree, lights etc, Have lots of family traditions, advent readings and advent tree, carol singing, last year we had 'Jesus Birthday Party' to which we invited friends of verious faiths and backgrounds (being upfront about what the party was for - and yes, they all came. We played the usual party games, made some Christmas star decorations, and had a birthday cake).

My kids love Christmas. I love Christmas! I don't think any differemnce to their enjoyment.

As for other kids - we tell them FC is a fun game that some famil1ies like to play, and that they can say to other children "we don't have FC at our house", rather than commenting on whether or not he is real. Its worked fine. I'd be cross with them if I heard they were going about telling other kids they shouldn't believe - thats not our intention at all. There are plenty of kids who don't do FC at their homes for various reasons, so I don't think you need to base your decision makinhg on what others may or may not do/believe, so long as you teach them to be sensitive.

Re the 'its the same as any fairy story' arguement - I disagree. If my kids read a story about FC and are having a game pretending he is real, thats fine, totally fine. Its the hoax that parents buy into that makes it different. When I read my kids Peter Rabbit, I don't then put rabbit foot prints in the garden, and make little rabbit ears to stick up behing a pot plant, and sugest the children write Peter Rabbit a letter, then fake a letter back from Peter...and thats fine if you want to do that, but you can't really argue its the same as simply reading a fiction story.

I think that's a lovely idea re. Peter Rabbit actually!

My mum was a primary teacher and she's very good at make-believe stuff; making stories come alive/dressing up/story sacks/puppets/acting out stories etc. I can totally imagine her doing something like the Peter Rabbit thing.

But Olifin, wouldn't it be a bit odd if she did it over and over again, was backed up by all the media around you and most of the people you spoke to and got huffy if anyone said it wasn't actually true?

lol olifin, I suspected someone would say something like that :)

I agree, it would be odd to do it again and again. And whe the DC asked "Is it really true that Peter rabbit writes those letters to us?", to answer "yes, its true".

But that wasn't really my point. Obviously you can teach father Christmas to your kids if you like (and of couse I can think of 1000 worse things one could do!), but I was just trying to make the point that FC is not the same as reading fiction to your kids (to encourage the OP to read wonderful fiction books to her DS).

Only read first page, but I don't see anything wrong with your plan. I love the idea of giving something to a hospital.
If you were Jewish nobody would think anything negative for not having a Father Christmas.

If you were Jewish you wouldn't be celebrating Christmas in the first place!

I think that it is very sad if you get all cynical about Christmas, it is only commercial if you let it be, you only spend too much money if you choose to -you can do the simple things that don't cost anything. Part of the joy when I was a DC was in parents having time to sit down and play board games, baking mince pies, making paper decorations.
I don't start thinking about it in October or even earlier! I am amazed by the threads 'what are you giving your 6 yr old for Christmas?' 'What decorating theme are you having?' 'What will you wear on Chrismas Day?'-Posts will then appear on 1st December saying who has their tree up (or even end of November!) and then on Boxing Day they wiill start with 'who has taken their tree down'. I don't know why people don't do it early and get it over with!!
I will make my cake soon, other than that I will forget about it until late November-the tree will go up in the week before and it will come down after New Year. When the time comes we will throw ourselves into it.
I can only think that those who can't understand the sheer magic of FC from a DCs point of view, either never had him as a DC or had parents who didn't do him well.
Half the fun is working out that he isn't true. My DCs had years of asking questions-they knew really, but didn't want to give up the magic. When they asked outright, they did it because they were ready and I told them the truth. They were not upset, they had half known it for some years.
There is no reason why we should all do the same, but it is a bit sad IMO if people don't let magic into their lives.

missmoopy Sun 03-Oct-10 20:57:07
"And Jesus existed? Fairly sure thats not proven is it?"

The existence of Jesus as a historical person is about as well attested as many of the other historical characters from Antiquity who find their way into history books , but whose existence is not usually doubted as it has no implication for religion. That is, he is mentioned by reasonably contemporary sources who have no stake in his existence. If we expunge Jesus from history, we'd have to expunge a lot of other people too.

Of course, the fact that Jesus probably existed as a historical person, does not prove that he was the son of God. That is a question of faith.

piscesmoon, true, I worded it wrong, but I think what I meant by that was obvious. Oh well, we all read things our own way.

I don't care if people pretend FC is real or not, just not an issue. But only reading Bible stories to children is CRUEL! For a start most Bible stories are horrible and frightening, with awful adult themes (even if beautifullly written in the KIng James version) - much worse than even the goriest fairy tales, because you are presumably telling your children that all this stuff is real, but because literature and fiction is wonderful gift to a child.

your beliefs are one thing but they are not his yet, if you truly want to give him free will you cant hide these things from him. Dont tell his father xmas isnt real, just say things like "let me explain to you the story of father xmas" that way hel think of it as a story but still be able to enjoy the santa part of xmas. they arent children fro long and he grows hel have enough of lifes hard truths coming at him

Ditavoncheese and astrophe

Yes, it would be odd, thats true. I don't think adults get 'huffy' if others say FC isn't real; unless they are saying it to DCs and therefore spoiling the fun.

astrophe I think, if a child is asking 'is it really real?' they're obviously having doubts so that might be the opportunity to explain that it is, in fact, just a story. IME, small children don't question it though; they just accept it until such time as they realise it doesn't make sense!

newwave

I have given your comments some consideration and you'll be pleased to know I have started the day with a bowl of muesli and intend to have a slimming shake at lunchtime.

Ho Ho bloody Ho.

Does anyone only read Bible stories to their DC's-unless they are part of an odd cult? Unless they HE, the DCs will get stories elsewhere and before long they can read whatever they like-including stories about Father Christmas.