to not understand the fuss over halal meat?

[StuckInTheMiddleWithYou]

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1317312/Waitrose-forced-ditch-halal-lamb-Duchy-range.html

Why on earth are people objecting so much? Do they really think that the standard method of killing an animal is any less cruel?

Quite mad.

My understanding of it was that animals killed for halal meat are conscious when their throat is cut and so they suffer more than if they are slaughtered the normal way.

Makes no difference to me as I'm vegetarian and I think the whole system of breeding and killing to eat is cruel and unnecessary.

toddler.. MC, in Egypt..

I was doing that stiff upper lip thing, oh it'll stop soon.... I'll be OK, no of course I don;t need to go to the hospital..

Not a recommended way to spend an evening....

I

"There would be no pain"

No, I'm sure having your throat cut doesn't hurt at all.

I am vegetarian anyway but can see several dilemmas here.

There was a discussion about this on the BBC a couple of weeks ago - can't remember whether it was on Radio 2 or 5 Live. A couple of the points which were raised were:

• many people who object to eating halal meat are unaware that the meat they are eating from some Asian restaurants/takeaways is halal

• there is apparently research which "proves" the the halal way is more humane (but exactly how accurate that is I do not know)

Anyway, wheichever method you feel is right, it is somewhat by-the-by if the animal has not had a good, free range life.

So sorry Littlemiss, that is awful.

I'd be more concerned with how an animal's lived than how it dies, from a welfare POV.

Non-halal slaughter doesn't actually involve an overdose of happy pills whilst the abbattoir staff hold the animal's hoof & read it a bedtime story...

I'd support clear labelling on meat re: the conditions in which it's been farmed, & the method of slaughter, so that people can make informed choices.

Actually, a live video feed from the abbattoir, relayed on a nice big screen directly above the meat fridges might be the way to go.

I dont mind either way re Halal meat. If we eat meat, then the animal is killed. That is the choice we make - obviously I would prefer it to be as humane as possible though. Or I could become vegetarian.

BUT seeyoukay, I do object to you labelling everyone who may have a belief you dont hold, which is of course your choice, as it is theirs, a "religious fuckwit"

Mumi - I've read some evidence about how halal is more humane.
I no longer have the article, and can't find it online (must be on there somewhere!)
It basically said that halal killing severs something in the neck, which means that due to the speed of the cut, and the sharpness of the knife, the animal does not feel anything.
There were brain scans done on animals killed in the standard way, and the halal. The brains of the animals killed using the standard slaughter method still registered massive amounts of pain (although the animal was unconcious by then) The halal method, the brains barely registered any pain at all.

As far as I remember, the RSPCA did some research using their own employed slaughtermen (but again, I can't find any info online, so take this with a pinch of salt!) comparing standard and halal methods, that showed lingering deaths in the halal slaughtered animals, but it was later claimed, by genuine halal slaughtermen, that the knives used weren't sharp enough, and the cut wasn't deep enough to ensure nerves (or whatever in the neck) were severed immediately, so the research was invalid.

I have no problems eating meat no matter how it's slaughtered, as long as the animals in question have lived free-range lives.
When a chicken spends its life in shit conditions, I think killing, no matter how it's done, will be a mercy to the poor things!

I don't get the fuss.

I'm sure plenty of home reared, home slaughtered (by atheisists ) chickens suffer just as much, or more than the Halal ones.

SeeYouOkay - If you are an athiest then you don't believe that the words make any difference so they can't possibly effect you.

Do you attend friends weddings in Church? Or do you stand up and shout at the vicar half way through? Have you ever had a kebab? If so it was probably Halal - similarly most currys.

Those against Halal as a less humane way of slaughtering animals are barking up the wrong tree. Your concern indicates that you care about animal welfare. Surely, if animal welfare were so high on the agenda, the Daily Mail would be exposing the awful abuses that go on on slaughter houses all over the place on a daily basis? Seems like stirring up some inter-cultural tension to me, rather than a concern about animal welfare.

The fact that people eat animals in such vast quantities as they do today is what has created factory farming and all of the horrific animal abuse that legitimately and legally goes on thousands of times a day just so you can have your roast, sandwich, burger, whatever. That is cause for concern if you're thinking about animal welfare - we need to consider the bigger issues here, then we can decide whether it's more humane to fail to bolt a cow through the head properly and skin and slaughter them whilst they are still concious, or slit their throat.

I've had a rootle about on google, and have found this

This research was published in 1978 though, and I'm sure the thing I read was more recent, and the RSPCA research (which I cannot find anywhere!)was within the last 10 years. (maybe they've deleted all evidence of a cocked up experiment?)

Quincemince, I do agree with you though, and I'm really stunned that apparently so many people can be unhappy with the slaughter method used to produce their sunday roast, yet don't give a flying bollock about how the animal has lived in the first place!

Yeeehaa I think that lack of a flying bollock about animal welfare is because either people just don't know about it, or don't want to know. Usually the latter. You almost certainly have to be in at least a little bit of denial to swallow modern meat. But people are lured into believing that because there is a picture of a grazing cow on their bottle of milk or pack of steak, that the meat came from some sort of idyllic farm where animals roam free. What a joke! Modern meat is something that society should be thoroughly ashamed of, but instead we feed this abused, poisoned shit to our children. Now, that is something that people should be raging about!

Maybe the animals should be forced to read a 50 page Mumsnet thread about parking spaces. They would then be either comatose and could be killed politely, or dead.

YABU - I don't want religion near my meat thanks.
Maybe because I hate immigrants and am a racist. Maybe because I'm an aggressive athiest. Oh no wait I'm not!
Why are the views of those who accept Halal 'right' and those who don't, have to be labelled intolerant. Smakcs of intolerance - hypocritical much!?

It's because "When in Rome".

Why bother coming to England if you don't intend to embrace British ways. Why should we adapt to your religion you should adapt to your country.

Anyone who wants to call me a racist can. I'm a religionist, anti religionist that is!

Just fit in or fuck off

There are plenty of British muslims - that's not really an argument.
I do, however, believe we should keep our tradition of preparing meat. By altering it we are accepting religion influences our lives - I feel uncomfortable with that!

Those of you who hate the idea of eating halal meat had better stop going out for a curry then, because all traditional "Indian" restaurants in the UK i.e. the ones that serve up vindaloo and korma and chicken tikka masala use halal meat.

That's what you'd expect in a Curry house though.

Not The Savoy!

If it wasn't the muslim way no one would give a flying fuck .least of all the Daily Fail

Alouiseg are you joking? Do you work for the Daily Mail or something? What is this 'just fit on or fuck off'? I don't get it. We all live on the same planet FFS, traditions and religions don't change over night. You're far more likely to bring some sense into murdering animals in a religious or non-religious way (both are barmy, IMO) if you aren't such an arrogant, old fashioned, narrow-minded twerp. People might actually want to listen to you then.

"Fit in" to what exactly?

This is a nation of individuals - not a monoculture.

Doesn't bother me

QuinceMince I object to British traditions being eroded because of religious rights.

If you live in a country you should live by the countries ethos. For too long we have been told to be tolerant and accepting of other peoples traditions. We are subjected to the insidious creeping of Islam.

I know this will make me (even more) unpopular but I'm truly not racist just sick to the back teeth of being dictated to by people who expect British people to accept archaic rules and laws dreamt up in another time.

Shariah banking, halal meat, shariah law, tiptoeing around honour killings for fear of "offending".

At the moment were sitting under an elevated state of terror thanks to Al Qaeda. It's the thin end of the wedge.