to not understand the fuss over halal meat?

[StuckInTheMiddleWithYou]

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1317312/Waitrose-forced-ditch-halal-lamb-Duchy-range.html

Why on earth are people objecting so much? Do they really think that the standard method of killing an animal is any less cruel?

Quite mad.

There's a fencing gag in that typo somewhere....

I might bless all oxygen atoms everywhere next.
Or all up quarks.

Ok fair enough and I'll drop the cruelty objection if they are required to stun them first. Why are they not doing that now as a matter of course? Didn't they care that it was cruel?

I agree that the act of praying over the food in itself makes no difference to the food.

There are two problems with that though.

1. That while a prayer to the success of the BNP party would also make no difference you could be sure that many would find that offensive. We who are not part of a particular religion or cause must have the right not to be involved in it against our will.

2. As I keep saying, if you allow religion to trump law than you must allow ALL religion to trump law. If we are saying "but we can't stop them doing this because allah/Jehovah demands it then you must arrange for all recently butchered meat to be 'shown to a snake' in line with the Rogatherian belief. (I think it has something to do with with the garden of eden)

Think of the logistics of getting live snakes into every slaughterhouse and handlers to be sure they don't bite anyone while being 'shown the meat'

It would be a nightmare.

I recently found out that all the meat served in my son's (state primary) school is halal. I am slightly uncomfortable about this (need to know more before I can say I object strongly). However, as I believe that only 8% of the local children are Muslim, and approx 0% of children at DS' school (it is CofE), I find the whole thing rather odd. And probably down to budgets / contracts. Nothing to do with religion.

NordicPrincess, so your religion was a cult at first then before it got bigger and before enough time passed and people got accustomed to it?

Try telling the main points of your religion (whichever one it is) to a hypothetical alien and then say that only cults have novel beliefs.

Onagar - your NOT involved in it. If someone says 'Bless you' when you sneeze do you feel personally violated?

And it's nothing to do with law, it's to do with supply chains. If their were enough Rogatherian's then you might get niche producers getting a few snakes in. If there were a LOT then you might get main stream producers getting some snakes in. If you then end up with two identical production lines, one going out one door past the snake and one out of another door, someone will eventually say 'Hey, if we send them ALL past the snake we only need one door. That'll save us at least £200 off the next factory'. So they will do it.

"Religions are successful cults"
Didn't someone say once that a religion is a cult with an army and navy? :o

do refer to yourself as an ape? no you refer to yourself as human

A human is a type of ape though.

Well if it MAKES NO DIFFERENCE why fucking well bother.

It may well be that encouraging my dd to pray in school assemblies makes no difference either, as i don't believe. It is not the action, it is the PRINCIPLE of the matter.

GertOrf - It makes a difference for those who do believe and no difference to those who don't so it's simpler, easier and cheaper just to treat it all the same.

I don't beleive there is an issue of principle here. If you were being forced to say grace, then that would effect you and you would have a point. Someone you don't know doing something that doesn't effect you just isn't worth getting worked up about.

I am trying to work out how I can put my POV across without coming across as some kind of dickhead.

But, I object the the current state of affairs where there is a mix of church and state, which has been the case for hundreds of years.

I think to introduce new ways in which somehow choice is curtailed by religious fervour, well it pisses me off.

No it makes no difference to me in reality whether the chicken I eat has been butchered by halal methods or not, but that is rather a simplistic argument. Where does it stop?

If it was a state mandated thing then you would have a point. As it's not what people are saying is 'I don't think that thing you are doing makes any difference but despite that, I still don't want you to do it'.

Is a choice between two identical products a choice? Do you want the piece of meat I winked at 3 times or the one I blinked at twice?

Like everything in this the country. The Muslims say jump, we say how high?

Why should the religion that carries the most spirit filled lunacy trump British Law?

It's pandering, pure and simple.

I think that:-
a) I don't beleive that god exists
b) Therefore prayer makes no difference
b) But I think that meat that has had prayers said over it is different to meat that hasn't had prayers said over it.

Is an intelectually coherent position.

Alouiseg - It quite plainly isn't. It is companies reducing their costs. I would have thought that would be the kind of thing you were in favour of.

If you are opposed to religion prayer does make a difference. I don't think there is any 'power' in it but that doesn't mean I don't care about it. I wouldn't want my child saying prayers at school. Not because it makes a real difference but as I do not believe in it. The words have no meaning for me but they do to others and I do not subscribe to them.
Why can you not accept that just because it doesn't bother you, others have the right to be as bothered as they like?

PinkieMinx - Being made to SAY prayers is totally different, and would be someone imposing their beliefs on you. A company saying some words over some food, so they can then put it in to the Halal or non-Halal supply chain based on their day to day requirements isn't imposing anything on you at all.

Yes it is, it's imposing ritual in food production, ritual which I vehemently oppose. If they said something else objectionable - racist or homophobic - this debate wouldn't be ongoing as people would not tolerate it. For me they are the same things.

Pinkie - If you don't want anyone to say anything Homophobic or racist over your food then you are going to have to get your meat from slaughterhouses that have much stricter recruitment requirements than I suspect is currently the case.

Is this just at the slaughter stage that it's an issue, or do the farming, processing and serving stages also have to conform to these standards?

I am far more in favour of decent animal husbandry than company profits. Especially when those products are produced for a market I have no wish to subscribe to.

I would agree with you over animal husbandry, of which the slaughter makes up a very small part. But at the moment most people want cheap meat so that is the system we are stuck with.

Whether Halal slaughter adds to or detracts from good husbandry is a much contended issue as you can see further up the thread.

I didn't get the impression that your primary concern was about animal husbandry though.

I don't care what they say over my meat, if they want to bless it for 20 religions it makes no odds to me (c of e).

Like many others, I am far more worried about the whole life an animal has rather than just the slaughtering process. And I get very bothered by the waste of meat, that most uk consumers will only eat a small part of an animal. I know a lot of people why buy cheap, factory farmed chickens and throw half away. If they used it all and made 2 or 3 meals out of it they could afford a humanely reared one.