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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Arg! Primary school is a minefield. Another one...

434 replies

Rosieeo · 29/09/2010 19:50

DD came home today and told me that her teacher makes them say grace before they eat. DD has no idea what it's all about; she thinks she's saying thank you to the person who gave her lunch, i.e. me!

The school has no religious affiliation although the prospectus alludes to 'collective daily worship'. I appreciate that schools are somewhat obliged to provide some kind of 'spiritual' stuff. I just expected it to be Harvest Festival or a few hymns in assembly.

Obviously I have no problem with religious education, as long as it is 'education' (some people believe this, others believe that) and not religion presented as fact.

I went to a CofE primary school and even they didn't make us say grace! AIBU to be vaguely annoyed/disturbed and to possibly have a quick word with the teacher?

Any thoughts? Sorry if this has been done to death by the way, DD is my eldest and this is unexplored territory.

OP posts:
swallowedAfly · 02/10/2010 09:47

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swallowedAfly · 02/10/2010 09:49

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Aitch · 02/10/2010 09:50

so you won't be doing HP any more, pisces? because you know that it might upset people?

and i never studied enid blyton at school either. read every book, of course, in my spare time, just as i have read jk rowling, so i know they are good stories (in fact i was very careful to say that earlier) but i would nevertheless be horrified if better authors were ignored in favour of those two at school. there is no shortage of excellent writing for children, and school should offer them something to aspire to rather than a cartoonish, badly-written romp. that's not snooty, it's just wanting my child to be educated properly.

LilyBolero · 02/10/2010 10:54

Sorry to come back to this, but;

"atheism isn't a belief"

earlier in the thread, kewcumber says;
""non believers" - pedantically I', not a non-beleiver. I do beleive and quite strongly - I beleive that there is no God; I beleive that discipline and tolerance and good manners and respect are not the preserve of Christianity (or any other religion for that matter); I believe that it is quite hard to deal with the fictitious God issue for a 5 yr old who thinks their teacher is the font of all wisdom. For those reasons (my beliefs) I would also not like the teacher to be requesting my DS to say grace as a thank you to god (am quite prepared for it to be positioned as a thank you to me!)

I do not like my beleifs being ignored by the education system and teaching DS that they know better. They don't do it wiht other faiths and I'd rather they didn't do it with mine."

LilyBolero · 02/10/2010 10:56

While I was washing my hair, I was thinking more about this (you're right aitch, I do need to step away!), and it would take so little to adapt the grace - all would be needed is a tweak to make it something like
"For what we are about to receive, may we be truly thankful." (if the teacher particularly wanted to do that particular grace). I think it is nice for children to acknowledge that people across the world have worked hard to provide them with their food, even if you don't want to include God in that.

crazycanuck · 02/10/2010 11:06

Yes yes Lily, that's exactly what I said to ds teacher. I don't think she'll change the wording of the grace but hopefully it's given her something to think about. She was the one who suggested that perhaps he thanks me for his food instead (though I would rather he was thankful to all who worked for his food as you say, without bringing God into it).

Aitch · 02/10/2010 12:03

exactly, Lily, so there's no need whatsoever to bring god into it at all in a non-denom school. lovely that children are encouraged to realise their good fortune wrt their plentiful meals, just a bit unfair that they are being asked to thank dumbledore/god/whoever for it if they have no concept of who that is.

theslumbertaker · 02/10/2010 12:13

lily - i think that is what many of us have been trying to suggest all along. the objection has always been about thanking the lord. not about saying thankyou full-stop

so i guess there is a consensus that if there is to be a thankyou moment before a meal in school, it should be a non-specific thankyou so that each child can interpret it as they will.

so is that not an end to it then? surely this seems like a reasonable request for op to make of the teacher?

swallowedAfly · 02/10/2010 12:16

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piscesmoon · 02/10/2010 12:27

'so you won't be doing HP any more, pisces? because you know that it might upset people?

I will carry on exactly the same Aitch. I wouldn't actually read Harry Potter as a class book because it is one that DCs tend to read themselves. You very often find that one or 2 DCs in yr1 are already reading him for themselves and there is plenty of time to find him. I go for books that they may not come across for themselves.
As a starting point for imaginative work of their own it is excellent. Even cartoons have their uses.
No one has ever been upset-I will cross that bridge if I come to it.

I am actually surprised that grace is said in a non denominational school.

I don't think that a parent should tell a child that god is fictitious, they should say I believe that god is fictitious in the same way that teachers should say Christians believe. It is all down to belief and the DC has the right to work out what they believe for themselves.
You will find that you can't dictate. I would imagine that half the problem that posters have with their own parents is the fact that their parents still want control.
I would have great problems if my mother thought I should think the same as her because she is my mother!!Luckily she doesn't and never has.

LilyBolero · 02/10/2010 17:51

slumber - that's basically what I've been saying all the way through too.

Aitch · 02/10/2010 18:46

"No one has ever been upset-I will cross that bridge if I come to it."

i think that stinks, tbh. according to what lily says, then, for the want of choosing another book you would put a parent through an extremely awkward situation.

piscesmoon · 02/10/2010 21:25

Why does it stink? No one has had the slightlest objection to books I have chosen! Am I supposed to send home a list for parental approval in case something upsets someone?!
As I have already said-I wouldn't read Harry Potter as a class book-I think it is one for DCs to read themselves and I stick to those they are less likely to find for themselves. I can't see why anyone would be upset by Harry Potter-I have used extracts in church schools. No one has been upset! Obviously if I ever get an occasion that it upsets someone then I will deal with it in an appropriate way e.g. not read it. It would be pretty ridiculous not to read it in case anyone is upset when they they never have been -and most probably never will be!

Aitch · 02/10/2010 21:29

okaaaay, you know this not to be true (unless you think Lily is lying to strengthen her case?), hence the reason i think it stinks.

Aitch · 02/10/2010 21:30

you know with the GREATEST respect to tethersend i do find the teachers on MN awfully obtuse sometimes.

piscesmoon · 02/10/2010 21:35

I think anything like that is narrow minded! I can't see why a DC can't read Harry Potter and I can't see why they can't be around for grace. They don't have to say grace themselves and I am absolutely sure that if my mother had banned a book I would have read it in secret!

Aitch · 02/10/2010 21:37

i'm not banning any harry potter books, i've read them all and liked them. are you sure you are actually reading these posts or are you just typing in time with your knee jerking?

piscesmoon · 02/10/2010 21:37

I think that parents would think I was mad if I sent a letter home saying 'I am going to read an extract of Harry Potter on Monday -any objections?'!

Aitch · 02/10/2010 21:38

most of your posts are in reply to things that you actually wrote yourself, you do know that, don't you?

piscesmoon · 02/10/2010 21:42

I don't know why we are even mentioning Harry Potter-I have lost track. All I am saying is that I have never had the slightest problem reading it in any school and if I ever do I will come to a solution at that point. I am not going to forsee a problem that isn't there! I have had a problem, that I didn't forsee, about a DC painting a dragon's costume for a mummer's play-once I knew it was a problem I dealt with it. I cross bridges when I get to them!

Aitch · 02/10/2010 21:47

you're at that bridge. you now know that HP is disapproved of in a school setting by some parents for religious reasons and by others because they're not well-written. it would be perfectly reasonable at this point for you to think 'i'll not do HP again, seeing as it's no skin off my nose whatsoever and there are gazillions of other books in the canon that are infinitely better'.

i dread to think what you'd be like if someone had to pluck up the courage to ask you to change the wording of grace.

Kewcumber · 02/10/2010 21:49

I know nothing and its not really relevant to the argument discussion but isn;t reading Happry Potter in school a bit like setting a Jilly Cooper novel as a GCSE text?

piscesmoon · 02/10/2010 21:57

I know that HP is disapproved of by some parents-through this thread- but I have never come across any- and if I do then I won't read it.
I don't say grace so it really isn't a problem! In church schools it is pinned on the wall and I ask for a DC volunteer to read it (there are always lots). Parents can hardly complain if their DC is at a church school! I have never done grace at a non denominational school-which is why I expressed surprise in the first place. The parent should take it up with the Head.

piscesmoon · 02/10/2010 22:00

I am not going to stop sticking egg boxes to sheets to make dragon's costumes in case a parent doesn't like it when it isn't likely.In the one case that I came across I fitted in with the parent and didn't make them do it.

Aitch · 02/10/2010 22:01

i really think that is the wrong attitude, tbh, and i am Shock that you would consider HP worthy of using in an educational setting.