Arg! Primary school is a minefield. Another one...

[Rosieeo]

DD came home today and told me that her teacher makes them say grace before they eat. DD has no idea what it's all about; she thinks she's saying thank you to the person who gave her lunch, i.e. me!

The school has no religious affiliation although the prospectus alludes to 'collective daily worship'. I appreciate that schools are somewhat obliged to provide some kind of 'spiritual' stuff. I just expected it to be Harvest Festival or a few hymns in assembly.

Obviously I have no problem with religious education, as long as it is 'education' (some people believe this, others believe that) and not religion presented as fact.

I went to a CofE primary school and even they didn't make us say grace! AIBU to be vaguely annoyed/disturbed and to possibly have a quick word with the teacher?

Any thoughts? Sorry if this has been done to death by the way, DD is my eldest and this is unexplored territory.

MouseCostume, if you read the whole thread there are various links, but basically, it's the law that every maintained school (and that includes non-Church schools) must include an act of collective worship that is broadly Christian.

loads of people have said that she would be fine just sitting the grace out. so every day, every lunchtime, she is to be made a little bit different from her friends... great.

Lily, sorry, I have posted sporadically but have found this one hard to follow (and believe) in parts!

If it's the law, it seems to me that the choice is a stark one;
a) Suck it up (it's only grace, talk to DD, as PPs etc)
b) Move schools to a non-maintained school or home ed
c) Get law changed

Simples!

exactly aitch. i have been in that exact situation. i sat quietly looking different during grace. or stood awkwardly silent during hymns. and the teachers who do not know why you aren't joining in come and poke you (metaphorically) to find out why you are being such an obstinate and difficult little thing...not ideal. but interestingly, many of my fellow pupils and some of the teachers respected me for it.

mousecostume - it is indeed a stark choice. i think getting the law changed is the most reasonable option. religious practise has no place in the education system.

which is why the best course of action is for the OP to have a quiet word with the teacher.

well actually, the best thing would have been if the teacher wasn't saying grace in the first place.

Well...you can look at it another way. I know lots of Christians (and although I am Christian, I don't subscribe to this view, but for lots of them it is very important) who don't want their kids to read/watch anything about magic, because they find that against their religion. So they would be very upset if a class teacher was reading Harry Potter for example.

So supposing the teacher decided they were going to read Harry Potter as the end of day book, and there were children in the class whose parents felt strongly that they didn't want them to read it - should they
a) expect their child to go out during the book,
b) have a word with the teacher, explain it was against their belief system and see if there was a solution
or
c) be cross with the teacher for reading it in the first place

You will probably say 'oh that's different' but it's not really - it's something that is absolutely against some people's religion, but could be seen as unimportant to others.

it's not - because to some people, it is VERY IMPORTANT that their children do not read or be exposed to books about magic, fiction or non-fiction. I know people who are VERY VERY concerned about the Harry Potter books, and they are not 'wacko' religions, they are mainstream Christian. So why is something that they are concerned about, because it is against their beliefs, less important than this issue?

Yeah, 'non-denom' schools should be just that, maybe still with RE covering all mainstream views, I think this post shows that it's too bigger deal to ignore completely!

Parents could still choose affiliated/ church schools as they wish.

If the OP has a word though, she would effectivly be asking the school to drop a legal obligation (confused), and of course run the risk of looking like, to quote a PP, 'a mad bint'.

I think OP should talk to her DD, but I'd be worried about overly confusing a 4yo.

Harry Potter isn't actually against your religion if you are Christian, though. I was brough up CofE and had regular indoctrination from Vicar Virtue (really) did RS O-level (in depth textual analysis of the Synoptic Gospels), have read the Bible paying close attention and been to plenty of services and I can't see anything about children's fiction featuring magic. That's just some people choosing to make a fuss about nothing.

Jewish people and Muslims objecting to pork - valid. Sikhs demanding to be allowed to wear turbans - valid. Christians making a fuss about childrens' books - they are free to argue their point but claiming Harry Potter is somehow 'against their religion' is a massive exaggeration.

MOuseCostume, as long as the school provides some form of Collective Worship (and this is usually assembly) then they would not be breaking the law. But the easy solution is to have a non-specific grace which every child can direct to who they want to - whether that is God, or the school cooks, or the farmers who grew the food.

try googling Harry Potter Christian and there are hundreds of websites which are concerned.

Like I said, I don't subscribe to that, but I know lots of people who would be very concerned about their kids being read it at school because of religious reasons.

i think a more useful course of action would be to speak to the head teacher about their policy on 'collective worship'. discuss your concerns and try to find a solution. ultimately it is the head's responsibility to discuss it with the teacher in question, and it would (hopefully) be raised anonymously and in confidence with that individual. if the individual teacher is imposing their views on the children, then their manager should deal with it

CS Lewis is regarded as having a clear biblical message.

THe only reason I brought this into the discussion is because it seems parallel - something that lots of people would find 'harmless' but which makes some parents very concerned. And if you say "it's different, it's fiction, parents SHOULDN'T be concerned" then that is forcing something on children that parents don't want as much as children saying a grace might be.

Why isn't there a problem with assembly then?

Non specific grace sound grand, but I can't see why there's no problem with other types of collective worship.

My head hurts.

This thread seems to be going round in circles now!!

Time for bed!

What should be the Christian view of Harry Potter

Religious debates over the Harry Potter series