Arg! Primary school is a minefield. Another one...

[Rosieeo]

DD came home today and told me that her teacher makes them say grace before they eat. DD has no idea what it's all about; she thinks she's saying thank you to the person who gave her lunch, i.e. me!

The school has no religious affiliation although the prospectus alludes to 'collective daily worship'. I appreciate that schools are somewhat obliged to provide some kind of 'spiritual' stuff. I just expected it to be Harvest Festival or a few hymns in assembly.

Obviously I have no problem with religious education, as long as it is 'education' (some people believe this, others believe that) and not religion presented as fact.

I went to a CofE primary school and even they didn't make us say grace! AIBU to be vaguely annoyed/disturbed and to possibly have a quick word with the teacher?

Any thoughts? Sorry if this has been done to death by the way, DD is my eldest and this is unexplored territory.

to be fair Aitch, most people aren't saying "it's only a few seconds" or at least, any that were, were right back at the beginning of the thread.

Which of that involves accusations of insanity or stupidity? None -- and it was all in response to multiple abuses as stupid, freaky, unpleasant, "message deleted" (for abuse), stupid, stupid thing, BNP supporter etc etc.

Yes that made me seriously snarky towards one abusive poster as explained when I said that Rosie had actually been very measured.

How "lady luck" qualifies as abuse I have no idea. You must have been pretty stuck when you were searching through.

"no, your example only makes sense if they are being asked to worship dumbledore, a fictional figure. "

No, the problem for some is in reading it. And listening is participation. You can't just say 'oh that isn't a problem'. Because to some it is. And I can't believe you're saying that we have to be tolerant of some people's beliefs but not others.

I wouldn't be expecting a 4 yr old to question the teacher, I would be expecting them to question themselves about what she said.
No one would want to thank dumbledoor for their dinner! However I would have no objection to my DC doing a thanks for another religion if they were asked.
A 4 yr old isn't an atheist or a Christian-they are merely the DC of an an atheist or Christian-who says what they might be? Quite possibly a Muslim or Buddhist or a Pagan. It is up to the DC not the parent.

nope, not ignoring you, just talking about the many, many people who have said that the OP's dd would be fine opting out. it's not a two-way here.

and of course the OP should speak to the teacher, but ffs what if she gets the attitude that has been shown on here? what if the teacher refuses to change but says 'she can opt out' or starts banging on about her right to read Harry Potter? the OP is opening a massive can of worms for her kid, potentially, which is a real shame as it's quite simply a situation that should never arise in the first place.

Well that's always a risk when you challenge something.

If it was a problem for someone in the class then I would expect the parent to see me. I have read Harry Potter quite openly and based work on it and even sent one piece home for homework and have never had an objection.

okay you are being silly now, lily. i wasn't sneering, you are all good christians are you not? why else would you care so much about grace in a non-denom school.

and seriously, the HP thing is only relevant in the manner i have outlined. it's hijacking the discussion.

(Sorry pressed Post too soon)

Meant to say...

That's always a risk when you challenge something, which is why it should be the parent who speaks to the teacher. It's highly likely the teacher hasn't for one second imagined that it is a problem for some children, and also likely that it isn't school policy, it's something that one particular teacher is doing.

Most teachers are fairly reasonable and would accommodate this! Certainly when I've asked my kids' teachers about things that have the potential to open cans of worms, they never have done yet!

Lily you are very sensible and also measured. Maybe you and Rosie should have done this between you

i take it you won't be doing harry potter in class any more, pisces? now that you know that so many of lily's actual RL friends have a problem with it? because it would be highly unfair of you to place parents in the invidious position of having to come and talk to you about something so sensitive when you could just choose another book, wouldn't it? (something well-written would be a start - i would seriously roll my eyes at a teacher that thought HP was worth studying.)

This is part of a bigger picture.
Challenge if you want.

But basically you would have to challenge the Queen being Head of State and the Church of England being the national religion.

Not stuck at all Appletrees. The last statement was more an example of pure snark I guess, but the rest seem to call into question the OP's ability to think in an intelligent level-headed manner. Those posts are all referring to the OP, not other posters. You contradict yourself.

It felt like it was sneering Aitch, I will take your word that it wasn't. There is plenty of sneering on this board at Christians. The phrase 'all you good Christians' does feel sneery, but if it wasn't then thank you.

The HP thing was never meant to be a hijack, it was meant (as I said earlier) of something that could be a problem for a different group of people that to others would be perfectly ok, and also shows why you cannot 'leave religion at the door', because if it IS a problem to you, you can't read it at home OR in the classroom. It's another example of where a teacher might inadvertently go against a child's (or more likely a parent's) belief system.

piscesmoon "If it was a problem for someone in the class then I would expect the parent to see me. I have read Harry Potter quite openly and based work on it and even sent one piece home for homework and have never had an objection."

Precisely - and that's what the OP should do, as I've said throughout the thread.

if i was the OP, the attitudes expressed on this thread would give me no comfort whatsoever that my view would be accommodated in the manner i would require, ie that the mention of god would be dropped entirely. i feel for the OP, i think she's in a pretty crummy position.

You obviously didn't read all the posts, crazy.

as i said before, to appletrees in response to her calling me one of 'you atheists', i am a catholic. hardly likely to have a problem with christianity, am i?

I certainly did. You refer to OP being measured and level-headed yet you also accusr her of having seven fits, of thinking the sky is falling, and of swooning over grace being said

aitch "i take it you won't be doing harry potter in class any more, pisces? now that you know that so many of lily's actual RL friends have a problem with it? "

If this isn't sneering I don't know what is. It is not 'my real life friends', it's part of the more evangelical wing of the Church, including the Dean of Canterbury Cathedral. No point trying to make out people DON'T have a problem with it, or that somehow my friends are wacko - actually most of my friends are fine with it, but a few would have a problem. Similarly, most of my friends would be fine with a grace (Christian and atheist), a few would have a problem with it.

you don't know what is.

you did say that you had friends who had a problem with HP, didn't you, before linking to sites that proved that it was an international issue?

i think you might need to take a step back, lily, i was supporting your case...

Not studying as such Aitch, but you can get wonderful imaginative work using an extract as a starter. It is all to do with me saying that DCs are not blank canvasses! They have views and the work done has been amazing and all different depending on their 'take' on it. As a supply teacher I have never had the time to read the whole book to a class.

I love reading now and as a DC I was a real bookworm-I always had my head in a book and I read anything and everything that came my way. There was nothing worse than an adult being all worthy about my my reading and snootily saying it was badly written! Enid Blyton's writing is dire and she was banned in libraries for a long time but she survives because she tells a good story. DCs like relaxation sometimes in their reading as well as a challenge. Harry Potter is a good story and anyone who could get my dyslexic DS -who never opens a book unless he has to -to read the whole thing for pleasure, has my vote! I really don't care about the quality -it got him to read.
As a child the very fact that an adult was being snooty about a text would make me want to read it!

Sorry-nothing to do with saying grace in school!

NoNoMum has the problem in a nutshell -religion will be in schools until we have disestablishmentarianism (apologies if spelt wrong). While the Queen is Head of State and Head of Church there is no chance, Join the secular society.

swallowedafly - Well unfortunately I think you have missed the point, which is that both saying the grace, and reading Harry Potter go against some people's belief systems, but that others may not realise this, or may not see the problem.

Aitch - thank you, sometimes it is hard to get inflexions etc on a written board, and it did feel like you were sneering, but thank you for explaining you weren't, I might be over-sensitive