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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Arg! Primary school is a minefield. Another one...

434 replies

Rosieeo · 29/09/2010 19:50

DD came home today and told me that her teacher makes them say grace before they eat. DD has no idea what it's all about; she thinks she's saying thank you to the person who gave her lunch, i.e. me!

The school has no religious affiliation although the prospectus alludes to 'collective daily worship'. I appreciate that schools are somewhat obliged to provide some kind of 'spiritual' stuff. I just expected it to be Harvest Festival or a few hymns in assembly.

Obviously I have no problem with religious education, as long as it is 'education' (some people believe this, others believe that) and not religion presented as fact.

I went to a CofE primary school and even they didn't make us say grace! AIBU to be vaguely annoyed/disturbed and to possibly have a quick word with the teacher?

Any thoughts? Sorry if this has been done to death by the way, DD is my eldest and this is unexplored territory.

OP posts:
colditz · 29/09/2010 19:54

Be sure that you haven't sent her to a religiously affiliated primary school (they are shits for not nailing their colours to the mast) then go in and insist she is not made to pray to anyone, ever.

PorkPieLove · 29/09/2010 19:56

No religious affiliation? Are you certain of that? It sounds very much like my DD's school which is Christian. Is it a private school? They're often a bit quirky.

Anyway...there's nothing wrong with grace...it's just odd at first if you're not used to it. NO different to saying a prayer of thanks inHarvest Festival.

The school will include education about other religions as your DD get's older.

KnittingisbetterthanTherapy · 29/09/2010 19:57

I would not expect my DC say to grace. I would have a word personally - not on.

Panzee · 29/09/2010 19:57

Grace would count as collective worship. Box ticked, move on. I wouldn't worry too much.

activate · 29/09/2010 19:57

I would speak to teacher and ask for an outline of the religious observances, what religions they speak about and what acts of worship they perform

It might have been a one-off and tomorrow they might be doing some druid feast for all you know Grin

rpickett · 29/09/2010 19:58

I think that it is wrong to make a child say grace and not explain what it is about, I also believe it is wrong to make a child say something religous (unless of course it is a religous school CofE/catholic etc) unless it is for educational purposes of RE, if the teacher doesn't know if it against someones personal religous beliefs.

activate · 29/09/2010 19:58

Well there's nothing wrong in doing a collective meditation or standing up and chanting the macarena either

not sure it's appropriate in a school though

Original poster
Rosieeo · 29/09/2010 19:59

It definitely says in the paperwork that the school has no religious affiliation. It's a bog standard primary, not independent.

I almost wouldn't mind if they varied who they were praying to on a daily basis, it's the blind belief that we're all Christian that gets me.

OP posts:
Skyrg · 29/09/2010 20:08

I think it's odd and shouldn't be expected, but I don't see the point in complaining.

I would use it as an example of tolerance. Explain that some people feel the need to thank God for their meal, but you personally do not believe it. Tell her she can respect the others by bowing her head and being quiet, but doesn't need to say grace. Perhaps ask her instead to think about something else (how fortunate she is to have food, who grows/makes the food, or something?). Send in a note saying you've given her permission for this.

I sincerely doubt they would challenge you on that.

lalalonglegs · 29/09/2010 20:11

I can see why it would irk but I think grace - being thankful to have food in front of you - is probably one of the least offensive aspects of Christianity. I agree with Skyrg that you could just explain it as being grateful that she has enough to eat and to bear in mind that not everyone is that fortunate.

domeafavour · 29/09/2010 20:12

do they definitely say Thank you Lord or Thank you God, or are they saying thanks for the food in front of them?

barnsleybelle · 29/09/2010 20:19

What exactly about it bothers you ?

PorkPieLove · 29/09/2010 20:19

Oh ffs! So what if they do thank God? Tell your DD she can miss that bit out...as a child, singing the Welsh National Anthem aged about 6, I worked out that one line in Welsh meant "I would die for my country"
I thought "No. I wouldn't." so never sang that line again. Kids have more sense than we think....leave it up to DD.

Original poster
Rosieeo · 29/09/2010 20:20

I tried to explain the concept, but she just though I was talking about Father Christmas Blush. She really has no idea and told me she was just saying thank you for her food, which is fine. I just don't like the idea that she's parroting something and will just accept it without question.

They've been drilled in it too, she repeated 'Forwhatweareabouttoreceivemaythelordmakeus trulythankfulamen' very readily. She can't remember what she did in school this morning but can remember this!

Great points about tolerance though and I will take them on board.

OP posts:
JosieZ · 29/09/2010 20:22

I was glad when my DCs spent time at boarding school because they went to church. Otherwise they wouldn't have a clue what it involved.

How can they decide in the future whether they want to join the church, believe in a God or whatever if they have no idea what it normally goes on.

If they are exposed to others of different beliefs in their day to day lives they can decide what path to follow. If they have no experience of religion they can't.

ColdComfortFarm · 29/09/2010 20:22

Definitely complain IF it is true. Find out first, otherwise you will embarass yourself. Teachers do not have the right to stuff their superstitions down kids' throats, and all the ones I know would not drea of doing so, so tread carefully until you get the facts.

Original poster
Rosieeo · 29/09/2010 20:24

What bothers me is the assumption that we are Christian when the school is not a religious one. It bothers me that religion is being taught as fact, just as part of daily life. For some it is and for some it isn't.

If the school were CofE, Catholic, whatever then fair enough, but it isn't.

OP posts:
blametheparents · 29/09/2010 20:24

DC's school says grace before lunch, something like this
Thankkyou for food to eat,
Good health to enjoy it and
Good friends to share it with.

Non religious, but the sentiments are great.

I wouldn't worry too much.

Panzee · 29/09/2010 20:24

It's the law, isn't it? www.teachernet.gov.uk/management/atoz/c/collectiveworship/

MouseCostume · 29/09/2010 20:25

What's wrong with grace?
Does it not teach good manners/ respect?

We don't say it at home either when children or now, we always said it at our (village) primary school and it's said at my DS's (C of E) primary.

I don't really see how it can be objected to, hardly offensive (IMO). It's still said at some weddings/ dinners etc.

It doesn't necessarily have to be a religious, or even an exclusively Christian, thing to pause quietly for a moment before a meal. As Skyrg says, she can just be grateful, I'm pretty sure that's my DS's understanding (he's 5)

NoelEdmondshair · 29/09/2010 20:26

Oh where's the harm, I say? Saying grace, doing the harvest festival and a nativity play are part of the charm of some English schools. I'm an agnostic but enjoyed seeing DD playing an angel last December and wouldn't get in a tizz about her asking the Lord to make her truly grateful for the packed lunch she is about to receive.

ColdComfortFarm · 29/09/2010 20:27

Grace is NOT the bloody law! Collective worship is one thing (stupid, oppressive but due to pressure from the poor 'persecuted' church establishment, the bloody archaic law) but spreading religion's hideous tentacles to mealtimes is just unacceptable.

barnsleybelle · 29/09/2010 20:28

But didn't you say that the school promotes " collective worship " ? What did you think that meant if not saying grace ( at least ) ?

How will you feel if they perform a nativity play at christmas ?

I think you need to check with school what their plans are regarding collective worship so you are more informed with what to expect.

ColdComfortFarm · 29/09/2010 20:28

I think this idea that it is good comes from people who believe that religion is good and true. Some of believe it is fake and bad.

Panzee · 29/09/2010 20:28

I would have thought grace would cover Collective Worship in a nice, relaxed ten second burst. Better than 20 minutes of assembly if you don't want religion.