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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Arg! Primary school is a minefield. Another one...

434 replies

Rosieeo · 29/09/2010 19:50

DD came home today and told me that her teacher makes them say grace before they eat. DD has no idea what it's all about; she thinks she's saying thank you to the person who gave her lunch, i.e. me!

The school has no religious affiliation although the prospectus alludes to 'collective daily worship'. I appreciate that schools are somewhat obliged to provide some kind of 'spiritual' stuff. I just expected it to be Harvest Festival or a few hymns in assembly.

Obviously I have no problem with religious education, as long as it is 'education' (some people believe this, others believe that) and not religion presented as fact.

I went to a CofE primary school and even they didn't make us say grace! AIBU to be vaguely annoyed/disturbed and to possibly have a quick word with the teacher?

Any thoughts? Sorry if this has been done to death by the way, DD is my eldest and this is unexplored territory.

OP posts:
barnsleybelle · 29/09/2010 22:07

Maybe they did explain it ? Op hasn't been in and asked yet, and i remember mine where they were 4 had pretty selective memory of what was said at school ! Just a thought.

Original poster
Rosieeo · 29/09/2010 22:08

Oh right, sorry! Yep, I agree. I did ask her if she knew what it meant and she said no, she thought that she was saying thank you to Mummy for making lunch. However she does forget things, so if I decide to speak to the teacher I won't go charging in as if DD's word is beyond doubt.

Was about to say 'as if DD's word was Gospel' then and changed my mind. Decided to put it in to prove I'm not a mad, humourless, whinging git.

OP posts:
KnittingisbetterthanTherapy · 29/09/2010 22:09

Wow, this all got very heated while I was away! Shock

I would still have a word Rosie, I don't get all the comments about intolerance, it's not intolerance at all it's just not something you want your child to do.

Don't need to make it a big deal, just a quiet word.

Original poster
Rosieeo · 29/09/2010 22:09

Or that I over-think things. I don't do that either. Honest.

OP posts:
proudnglad · 29/09/2010 22:10

I don't think you're mad at all.

barnsleybelle · 29/09/2010 22:14

Rosieo, I do think in general terms yabu, but i must say i've enjoyed the debate and feel you have held your head high throughout this thread. You've been honest at every turn and deflected nicely some cutting remarks.

Skyrg · 29/09/2010 22:17

Could have done barnsley, it's a good point. I do, to a certain extent, agree with the OP that it would be nice if they observed several traditions from different religions. That way they're more likely to include everyone and it's very good RE.
My mum teaches, and she does this. Most of the celebrations from the major religions are observed, they do a bit of learning about them, put up decorations, sometimes have relevant food, etc.
In our school, there was quite a large number of muslim pupils. At Christmas, they'd get Christmas cards from the rest of the kids, and we'd all get cards from them at Eid :) This was mostly the parents encouraging their children to include everyone, and it was lovely. School RE was crap though.

PavlovtheCat · 29/09/2010 22:18

yabu, get over it. there are bigger things about schooling to get stressed about.

Contra · 29/09/2010 22:19

RosieeO - think you are both spot in your thinking AND handling this thread very well.

I couldn't agree with you more, actually, although I would not be shy in challenging Christianity as a default position.

You may struggle to get anywhere when they have stated 'some collective worship', however. It just rankles with me.

Mistymoo · 29/09/2010 22:24

Just a thought for those of you saying "it's just teaching you dd to be thankful". It's not really as the grace says "may the lord make us truly thankful". Surely if you believe in God you would be thankful and not have to be made thankful Hmm

piscesmoon · 29/09/2010 22:30

As a supply teacher I generally expect to say grace in C of E schools, but not in non denominational ones. I don't think it is a big deal-in later life she will at least be familiar if she comes across it.

Original poster
Rosieeo · 29/09/2010 22:32

:) Thanks! It's been an eye-opener. Which I why I love AIBU.

Haven't decided what to do though. We have a settling in evening coming up, so I might make enquiries then. To be honest, I don't want to isolate her from everyone else just because I don't believe in something, so I can't imagine opting out if it is classed as collective worship. So much for my beliefs, eh?

OP posts:
Original poster
Rosieeo · 29/09/2010 22:33

Or non-beliefs, should I say?

OP posts:
kat2504 · 29/09/2010 22:33

I don't think you're mad and I agree with most of your point of view. I wish that so-called collective worship was not required in state schools that are not church schools but ofsted does still require it. Unfortunately. Even though the majority of people in this country are not churchgoers or even believers.

On the other hand, save your complaining for the things that really matter in school. I'm a teacher and sometimes we do, and sometimes we don't have a prayer at the end of assembly. Depends on who is taking it i think. Children are given the option to just "bow their head in silent thought" if they don't want to pray. In my personal opinion people who have chosen not to send kids to church schools should not have all this praying, but it is largely harmless and will not have a big influence on their eventual beliefs when they grow up. You will have a bigger influence on that. No school wants to be criticised by ofsted after all!

savoycabbage · 29/09/2010 22:49

OP, I understand what you are saying. You were just a little surprised about the saying of Grace and wondered if it was happening in other non-religious schools and what you should tell your dd about it.

I would probably bring it up informally if it was me as I would want to know a bit more about it.

JJ6 · 29/09/2010 23:09

Most posts ( and society) tend to refer to respecting all faiths. People who have no religeous beliefs (we still have faith - in ourself and each other) are generally not acknowledged. this is what I find most offensive. Lets face it England is very secular in fact if it was not for some of the reccent immigrants from more religeous countries (Africa, eastern europe etc) and the parents who find faith to get into a good school the churches would be even more empty than they already are.

ColdComfortFarm · 29/09/2010 23:32

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by Mumsnet.

ColdComfortFarm · 29/09/2010 23:33

Sorry, Hmm - so tricky to roll one's eyes over the internet.

ColdComfortFarm · 29/09/2010 23:35

God, it makes me laugh that people are so bloody rude about other ('childish' blah blah blah) then start bleating and reporting when they get a bit back at them. lol.

CristinaTheAstonishing · 30/09/2010 00:03

Rosieeo - I too would have a word about this nonsense grace. It's, quite frankly, rubbish to assume collective worship means saying grace.

We had that at my DS's school, CofE as it happens, but I still thought it just wasn't on (they were doing some prayer or other). Thankfully, they dropped it. Obviously not popular with other parents either once their child was in the best school in the neighbourhood.

ornamentalcabbage · 30/09/2010 00:30

Agree with barnsleybelle. It is part of the UK's Christian heritage and by exposing children to these things it is unlikely to turn them into belivers but in these days of intolerance to religion it will help them better understand those that have a faith. In fact I welcome schools doing these things with my children as I am very unlikely as an agnostic to do them myself.

ornamentalcabbage · 30/09/2010 00:30

believers

charmander · 30/09/2010 08:11

To me the daily act of collective worship is assembly. We had grace and a prayer at the end of the day at the CofE school I taught at, but never at any others, just daily assembly of some kind. I think YANBU.

strawberry17 · 30/09/2010 09:14

I'm mainly with Appletrees, although I am leaning more towards atheism and ideally would prefer religion taken out of all schools like France,BUT I see no real harm in saying Grace and the nativity play, it is part of our heritage after all and I don't think it will have a lasting impact on a child. I think whatever is practised at home will have far more impact. Seems to me there is a lot of intolerance on here towards such a simple thing as saying grace, some people have too much time on their hands and there are far more important things to get upset about.

hettie · 30/09/2010 09:59

it's not intolerant to not want our children (if we are not religous) to thank God for their food. I don't believe god gave them the food. I would like my kids to decide (when they are old enough to grasp all of this ie not at primary school) whether they believe God gave them the food. Religion/belief in anything by young children is passed onto them from aduts of influence (generaly parents)- I don't want it passsed on thanks. It's not that hard is it? Just please don't say grace- you don't need to, there is no legal mandate for it so give it a miss (say grace at home if you want- but not when you're teaching my kids ta)

Question for religous people- if I came into your schools as a teacher and made all your children thank the fairies for the food ('cause I believe that's where the food came from) would you shrug and be cool with it 'casue it doesn't matter who your being thankful too?