Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Arg! Primary school is a minefield. Another one...

434 replies

Rosieeo · 29/09/2010 19:50

DD came home today and told me that her teacher makes them say grace before they eat. DD has no idea what it's all about; she thinks she's saying thank you to the person who gave her lunch, i.e. me!

The school has no religious affiliation although the prospectus alludes to 'collective daily worship'. I appreciate that schools are somewhat obliged to provide some kind of 'spiritual' stuff. I just expected it to be Harvest Festival or a few hymns in assembly.

Obviously I have no problem with religious education, as long as it is 'education' (some people believe this, others believe that) and not religion presented as fact.

I went to a CofE primary school and even they didn't make us say grace! AIBU to be vaguely annoyed/disturbed and to possibly have a quick word with the teacher?

Any thoughts? Sorry if this has been done to death by the way, DD is my eldest and this is unexplored territory.

OP posts:
Appletrees · 29/09/2010 21:29

i really don't know what you mean

freedom of collective worship means people of all religions can gather and worship, there's no prohibition at the mosque, synagogue and so on

Skyrg · 29/09/2010 21:29

Rosieeo Wed 29-Sep-10 20:38:48
The grace she has repeated to me is the traditional one: 'For what we are about to receive, may the Lord make us truly thankful. Amen.'

I don't understand why you're saying the mum doesn't know what the grace is.

Original poster
Rosieeo · 29/09/2010 21:29

I said twice Appletrees, that the grace being said was the traditional one: 'For what we are about to receive, may the Lord make us truly thankful. Amen.'

OP posts:
Appletrees · 29/09/2010 21:31

what is the problem here?

the child says thank you before lunch

assumes it's to the person who provided lunch so baby jesus presumably didn't feature highly

school is probably a mix of non believers, Christian, Muslim families etc

probably some generic "thanks a lot" being tolerant of all cultures

was it even called grace? or have you just called it grace? did she call it grace?

Original poster
Rosieeo · 29/09/2010 21:31

Sigh. I mean that children should be taught about religion (this is what X thinks, this is what Y thinks), but it should not be taught as fact or be part of the school day unless you select a school that states it has religious ethos.

OP posts:
Appletrees · 29/09/2010 21:32

oh scrap my last post

Appletrees · 29/09/2010 21:33

still don't see why you are upset

if the school is allowed to do it within the law all you have to do is explain or withdraw her

what's the big deal? what's so bad about saying thank you?

Original poster
Rosieeo · 29/09/2010 21:33

Are you even reading the responses to your questions, or just ranting? Go back and read my posts if you really want to know. Or you can just keep shouting.

OP posts:
Aitch · 29/09/2010 21:34

well I have sent my kid to a fairly religious although technically non-denom school but they were completely up front about that.

i think yanbu rosie, much as i can see you are taking quite a pasting here in general. but i just really cannot think what you can do about it other than think of the nativity and ride it out.

Appletrees · 29/09/2010 21:34

yeah sure I just scrapped my last post -- did you not read that bit yourself?

Appletrees · 29/09/2010 21:35

am not ranting, just not punctuating

different things

Original poster
Rosieeo · 29/09/2010 21:36

I didn't say it was bad. I said that it was unexpected and that I don't like that it is being said without explanation to the children and with the assumption that everyone is a believer. I didn't expect them to pray before meals and I don't like it!

OP posts:
Aitch · 29/09/2010 21:37

poor rosie...

Appletrees · 29/09/2010 21:38

fine

get your knickers in a twist

am happy for you that it's such an important problem in your life

lucky you

celticlassie · 29/09/2010 21:41

Athough not strictly related to saying grace I feel (as an English teacher) that having a working knowledge of Christianity, its history and how it works is very useful later on to help them understand a lot of literature and poetry.

Appletrees · 29/09/2010 21:42

all of my scorn is really directed at ccf for the horrible way she turned everything

to be honest

but i really think this is unbelievably, head shakingly non as a problem and

whatever floats your boat though

Skyrg · 29/09/2010 21:44

I think most of us agree celticlassie :) but I do think having knowledge of it and being told to participate in prayer are different things.
Also, the fact that the OP's daughter didn't understand it suggests they might be neglecting the religious education!

choccyp1g · 29/09/2010 21:49

When I say the established church is the whole problem, I didn't mean that it is the cause of ALL the problems in the world. (That would be a whole 'nother thread).

What I meant is that because "Church of England" is the established church, it is therefore the default religion of most schools (by law); this means that there is not a real choice for atheists, agnostics, let alone people with other religions.

I know many schools are sensitive to other religions, especially if they have a large proportion in a school. But IME they are not very sensitive to people of no religion.

Appletrees · 29/09/2010 21:50

Rosie I feel bad -- I disagree with you of course but it was ccf who really needed flamethrowing and you were just there too.

you were very measured in fact

barnsleybelle · 29/09/2010 21:54

I would like to also add that until coldcomfort joined the debate, it was actually very civilised for aibu ! Interesting, and at the end of the day our differences of opinion make the world go round.

Original poster
Rosieeo · 29/09/2010 21:54

Celticlassie, I completely agree. I think that all religions should be discussed and studied at school.

Skyrg, maybe we have neglected it. In our defence, she is only four. I've discovered it's much easier to tell them that something is real (Father Christmas) than it is to tell them that you don't believe in something but that other people do (God). We have talked about it whenever it's mentioned and she asks questions, but I don't bang on about it because it isn't part of our lives.

Appletrees, I'm really not getting my knickers in a twist, as you put it. I'm surprised that my comments have come across in that way. And of course, if you feel that my problem is not a problem then that's fine. I do think it's a small problem. For me. And surely that's OK too?

OP posts:
Original poster
Rosieeo · 29/09/2010 21:55

Sorry Appletrees, x posted.

OP posts:
Talker2010 · 29/09/2010 21:57

I think you are right to be concerned

More about the fact that this has not been explained to your child than anything else

It will not, of course, hurt her to say Grace but it is wrong for her to be told to repeat this without any context

If the teacher had said ... traditionally people say thank you to God before a meal and here is one way that is done ... I would be less concerned ... I would be happier if the "grace" were a secular poem ... there are plenty about ... but would still expect an explanation for the children

Skyrg · 29/09/2010 21:59

I wasn't talking about you neglecting it Rosieeo, I was referring to the school! I meant that if they're going to introduce a religious practice they should have explained it first.

proudnglad · 29/09/2010 22:03

Rosie I understand your concerns (and I understand your frustrations with obtuse posters too!), I'd feel the same. Have a word.