Arg! Primary school is a minefield. Another one...

[Rosieeo]

DD came home today and told me that her teacher makes them say grace before they eat. DD has no idea what it's all about; she thinks she's saying thank you to the person who gave her lunch, i.e. me!

The school has no religious affiliation although the prospectus alludes to 'collective daily worship'. I appreciate that schools are somewhat obliged to provide some kind of 'spiritual' stuff. I just expected it to be Harvest Festival or a few hymns in assembly.

Obviously I have no problem with religious education, as long as it is 'education' (some people believe this, others believe that) and not religion presented as fact.

I went to a CofE primary school and even they didn't make us say grace! AIBU to be vaguely annoyed/disturbed and to possibly have a quick word with the teacher?

Any thoughts? Sorry if this has been done to death by the way, DD is my eldest and this is unexplored territory.

the school isn't not allowing people to opt out. of course you can opt out. you can tell your dd to not speak those words, or tell the teacher she must be removed from the presence of others speaking those words.

I don't have any trouble telling my kids that rubbish is rubbish. Eg religions, inc scientology, astrology etc. Better than dragging the poor souls to church every sunday.

your comparison with satanism also rubbish btw

oh appletrees, so 'boring intolerant' is a compliment! Silly me!

hmmm, ccf, the trouble here is that if the teacher is religious in any way she may take being told not to say grace very badly... and who wants their child having an angry teacher?

Satanism wouldn't exist without christianity, flipside of exactly the same thing.

the rules

Ruddynorrah, my comment wasn't aimed at the situation in general, it was aimed at appletrees' comment that the OP was being 'boringly intolerant' or something.

The OP says they don't want their child to take part in grace (or at least not until the child understands it), and calling that intolerant is, imo, being intolerant. iyswim. :)

I know Aitch, and an angry, superstitious teacher has to be the worst, eh? But I think the OP has a moral duty to call her on this kind of behaviour.

Oh, and I forgot 'childish'. Another example of Appletrees never ever being abusive on account of her being so holy and so on.

Appletrees, the title alluded to a previous thread. As I stated earlier, DD is my eldest and this is the first go round for us.

I did say that she didn't understand. The concerns are mine, not hers.

You may think that I 'don't have enough to think about' and that's fair enough, we're all entitled to our opinions. I guess Mumsnet would be pretty boring if you got to censor it, since most of the threads here are not all that important in the great scheme of things.

I am not intolerant of religion, even though I don't believe in it. As I understand it though, religion isn't very tolerant of what I think. My child will not get the education I would like her to have, although almost every religious denomination is catered for in this country.

Does that make it clearer?

coldcomfort .... you are very scary. I nor my children visit church every sunday. Religion is still causing war and conflict throughout the world. Fact. I would rather my children be taught religion and have an undertstanding of what it all entails to make them more rounded individuals. I personally don't believe ( not that it matters ). I do not however see my children as extensions of myself or make any attempts to force my beliefs on them. I want them to gain a full and varied education and take from it what they will.

So, will you take them to BNP meetings so they get a full and rounded education about it? Being taught about religion is entirely different to be forced to worship.

it is still a christian country, we have an established church

being really tolerant, inclusive, welcoming and embracing towards other religions doesn't mean you abandon the one that informed your country's values

which it did whether you like it or not, or like the values or not, whatever

perhaps Christians should be less tolerant and embracing so that they can retain the country's religious "affliation"

like say Switzerland or Saudi Arabia

I don't take them to any meetings, you are missing my point. They get their religious education in school. And to be fair coldcomfort you are the one who has ranted far past the simple issue of worship.

no rosie, it really doesn't

omg my daughter says grace what a minefield argh gah the sky is falling

i mean por favor

Wow.

Appletrees Wed 29-Sep-10 20:58:59
Don't get this, Britain has an established Christian church...

That is the whole problem. I'm all for religious tolerance, but an established church, is by definition intolerant.
IMO Henry VIII did not go far enough. He broke away from the (Roman) catholic church, but we still have the "Church of England.

ooh ccf you are a piece of work

i bet your eyes are all screwed up with bitterness

are you accusing me of supporting the bnp? come on, out with it and I'll report you for abuse (again)

are you accusing me of being a member of the bnp?

Sure, the 'minefield' comment was hyperbole. Is that really what's upsetting you so much?

we have an established church

plus

we are tolerant of other religions, tremendously and wonderfully tolerant

freedom to worship, freedom of collective worship, state money for non Christian religious schools

there is no contradiction

how is this "the whole problem"?

Freedom of collective worship should mean you aren't automatically assumed to take part.

Religious education should mean children are taught about things like grace, clearly the OP's child has not understood it, therefore I think it is strange to expect her to do something she doesn't understand.

i don't understand your first sentence

the mum doesn't even know what the grace is and she's swooning

the child understands it as thankyou -- plainly the school hasn't said thank god because the child thinks the mother is the one being thanked

hopefully the child does understand thank you

I dislike the 'opt out' approach, in all honesty. I don't feel that religion should have a place in school, although religious education should. Unless it's a religious school. IYSWIM.