to buy a donor egg if mine are knackered?

[SassySusan]

Never thought I would, but find ourselves unexpectedly considering fertility treatment. Am a little over the hill. Apparently you can buy an anonymous donor egg in Spain without a wait - IVF has a higher success rate with the donor egg, and lots of the risks are reduced to that of a young mum (ie. the age of the donor)

DH and I are solvent, healthy, and nobody questions our ability to parent.

So have been surprised by the volume of negative reactions from family and friends to the idea. It's unnatural (what isn't!); the baby won't know its real mother (so what, lots won't know their bio Dad!); people shouldn't buy babies... etc.

I see it purely as a pratical issue - if we went down this route, it would be can we afford it, take the disappointment of failure etc. Can't see that there are any real moral/ethical issues for the baby... AIBU?

It's your decision. If you feel you can provide a child with a happy and fulfilled upbringing then the option should be available to you. However, since you admit you're "over the hill", you may want to think about the repurcussions of playing with nature, both on you and the child.

I agree with the concerns raised by DDDixon's post on the possible future problems caused by using an anonymous donor and hence leaving a child with no chance or option to trace their biological roots. They are legitimate concerns; she was not being 'judgy' or 'uncompassionate' O.P you say 'so what, lots won't know their bio Dad!' but that is hardly a situation to aim for is it? Yes lots of people don't know their biological parent/s, but setting out deliberately to create the same scenario for their own child isn't something a person would neccessarily do or want surely?

If a friend of mine was in this situation I would tell them to go to a clinic where the donors are not anonymous, simply to avoid future emotional or medical scenarios from occurring and to better ensure everyone in the family's long term happiness.

Shineynewthings No - nobody thinks yes, I'd like a donor baby. I'd obviously prefer a baby which is my bio and DH's bio child.

I seem to recall that lots and lots of Dads aren't really the Dads... Isn't it about 4%? I'm not advocating it as a good thing... but I think being raised by parents who aren't your biological parents is as old as the hills..

Similarly if I was pg, and didn't know who the Dad was - (drunken one night stand etc) - I don't think people would say that it would be terrible for baby not to know his/her dad... it isn't a route most women aim for ..... though some do!

I think the problems with DDixons posts are that she seems to be conflating adoption and egg donation. An adopted child, even one given up at birth, has an emotional bond with the mother. She has mothered it - grown it, bonded with it, birthed it... possibly looked after it after birth for a number of weeks and then handed over a real person. It is her child.

An egg donor has donated an egg that she would otherwise had not used. Without the mother it never would have become a person.

The lack of donors in country where anonymity is denied seem to suggest that donors don't want to be contacted either.

Don't know much about the practicalities tbh, (so maybe wrong) but my understanding is that the birth cert is issued without any reference to the donor... and that the mother (who gave birth) is the legal mother. I can't think of any real reason that you would need to tell anyone that it is a donor egg - as presumably you would pick a donor with no medical problems (same history as me). So in theory I suppose, the child would never need to know.

I also agree with DDDixons posts. As a child with an absent father and a stepfather who adopted me I have to say that eventually the urge to find out about my father became very strong.

My father is not much of a dad but that is beside the point, I feel at peace now that I know who he is and what he is. I think I would have found it very difficult not knowing and I feel that most children at some point feel the need to know 'where they came from' regardless of whether they want a relationship with their birth parents. The fact that sperm donation in this country is no longer anonymous seems to support this view.

My feeling is that there is nothing morally wrong with egg donation but, for the child's sake, it should not be anonymous. The need for the child to know where it originally came from is a powerful one and should not be discounted because it is easier and more convenient for it's 'parents' not to have any knowledge of the birth parent(s).

SassySusan do you mean that you would not tell a child?

If I am honest, if I was a child of such conception I would want to know, because I think that genetic inheritance is part of who we are, and gradually there is often a desire to learn about where we come from, as part of understanding ourselves. I don't mean that the child wouldn't be 100% yours, or that the situation is the same as with adoption, but I do think it would be the right thing to tell a child about how it came into the world, when the time is right.

Ignore comments such as meadowlarks about 'playing with nature': if we didn't play with nature we would leave cancer cells to multiply unchecked, infectious bacteria to go unchecked by antibiotics, etc etc

I also feel that saying that a mother who is an egg donor is completely different to a mother who gives her child up for adoption - due to the bonding nature of pregnancy and birth and the 'nurturing' the birth mother gives before giving the child up for adoption - is missing the point.

The child cares about who it is and what its genetic inheritance is, if that wasn't the case then children who have absent fathers (who don't 'bond' at all since their contribution amount simply to having an orgasm) would have no wish to seek them out. Clearly this isn't the case.

Can I ask how much this process costs? And how much of that goes to the donor?

Could everybody just remember that the op is only thinking about this step, that hopefully she will conceive naturally, that the reason she is facing possible infertility at all is due a bereavement and not to any 'lifestyle' choice at all.
There is a place for all the debate that's happened on thsi thread but I think some posters need to remember that there is a real pesrson with real griefs and worries asking this question and keep the judging philosophising to the abstract not the personal.

We have two children by sperm donation - there are an awful lot of very happy families created by gamete donation, but I don't think that anyone can really understand unless they've been there. We had no hope of having children naturally, so in a way it was easier as there was no lingering hope. We are now both real advocates of third party reproduction.

BUT, it took us quite a while to come to our decision. The diagnosis of infertility was initially completely devastating, and we had to basically grieve for the child that we wouldn't have together, before we were able to get excited about the child that we could. We also hard some challenging questions about how open we would be with any children that we had about their origins. It took counselling for several months before we were certain that it was right for us. And you really do need to be certain.

Regarding disclosure, you'd be hard pressed to find a psychiatric professional nowadays who thinks that it is best to keep the donation secret from the child. There have been many studies conducted, and they basically all have found that it isn't the actual donation that's the problem for the child, it's being lied to. The best way seems to be to introduce the subject naturally as the child grows, and to answer questions about their origins competely honestly. This is going to be hard, and we know that we our little blabber mouths that it probably won't be a secret for long once they find out! But that is our problem, not theirs.

I really hope that you find a way to have another child. You really deserve one. Good luck.

Oh! I forgot to add that even if the parents think that the donation is going to be secret, it's very difficult to keep it that way forever, especially if other family members know. So better, in my opinion, to be upfront from the beginning that for them to find out from someone else in less than ideal circumstances.

But obviously all this is way into the future. :)

Thanks northernlurker that's very thoughtful of you.

hidingidentity Maybe I'm being a tad dim, because we only really thought about this as a serious option recently... but DH's first hunch is that it is better not to tell people, and then nobody has an issue with it.. ie. don't tell family, friends etc.

I can't really see why we couldn't do that - as we could easily tell people that we were doing IVF, but ommit the donor part.

If studies show DCs who are told adjust to the news easily, and it is not an issue for them - why is there such a need to tell them. What practical beneifts do they gain from being told?

Sassy, children often find out later, these things tend to emerge (medical info or appearance maybe, - would you be able to lie if they asked you straight out?). And the shock of finding out such a truth was concealed from them is very damaging.

We've told all our close friends and families who would otherwise have worried about the medical implications of DP's 'input'. They have all been completely supportive.

I don't find it a big deal - we have a beautiful son

Well it's not so much practical benefits as the fact that they probably will find out one day. If you've already talked to your family about it and you have a child that looks nothing like you, there will be talk. And sooner or later your child will find out and be furious that their origins were concealed from them.

To turn the discussion on its head - why wouldn't you tell your child? There's no shame in what you're thinking of doing and I think the risks of not telling are much higher than those of telling.

YANBU - can't see any issue - Good Luck :)

Sassy - I have 2 points on not telling.

The first is that we should tell to show that we are not ashamed, that this is no dirty secret, that this child is never to be hushed over. That this child was yearned for, so much so that no barrier was considered to high. That despite everything, the family searched and searched and finally found this child. Then found teams of people to help make this child a reality. Probably 20 people all working and studying, researching and fighting to create this child. When I consider it, I almost feel it should be yelled from the rooftops! To know that you were born of that amount of love and dedication can only, in the long run and after much comunication and support, be a positive strong link with those around you.

ANd I believe that if a human being can accept and understand that yes, back on day one of their creation, a woman said to their parents 'here, here is a gift of an egg. You will need what is in it to get your dream' then they will achieve a huge level of calm happiness.
Sadly it is the human condition to second guess, to suspect, to almost assume and search out a negtive motive. But imagine if this could be got through, and the only conclusion possible was that someone wanted to be kind, and therefore you were born. It's all good. All positive.

Secondly, should a child ever find out or put two and two together, or some relative tell them for whatever reason, or should that child need a kidney and you decide to contact a seemingly random stranger to see if they will or can help...then the truth may out. By not sharing it from the begining it might seem like the opposite of the above is true. The child/adult may feel they are the guilty secret, odd, born of a strange and different make up. So untrue! So not how it is, not how you planned it, not how it's meant to be. Why make an issue of donation by denying it. Why not embrace it as one of the hoops you jumped through to get a child.

If you opt to go for the Spansh donation, I would still think long and hard about your motives for deciding not to tell the child. You may decide this is right for you and the chld and only time will tell and you may be proven right. However I would urge you to consider the possibilty of telling the child, although I haven't really thought through the process of doing this and the child-adult having no route to findng their donor. I am not sure how that could pan out.

It is a minefield. SO many things are. We cannot control and steer every ship through every sea. Ride your wave and see where it takes you, and I for one wish you all the best and safe journey.

if the reason to not tell your child is so that friends and family won't judge you for using donor eggs, it shouldn't be. What you are considering is not wrong, and if you believe it is best for you, and your family, you sound like the sort of person who could stick to their guns and be loud and proud about it. I don't mean shouting from the rooftops to all and sundry but open about it where it matters.

Still, the best people to advise are those who have been there - not me (though I have been through ivf.) And, possibly, for you, thinking about things one step at a time might be best, particularly since hopefully you can still conceive naturally. You and DH sound like a very strong couple which is I know very important when dealing with the terrible thing which has happened to you both, and the necessary 're-routing' of your lives since then.

Brilliant post treedelivery

I have to say if you are going to use donor eggs honesty with the child is the best possible option.

I say this as someone who found out last year my Mother was adopted and it has rocked my world even though it wasn't me who was adopted! I find it very very hard to deal with in a way I doubt I would have done if told the truth as a child.

These things always come out, my 83 year old GM just suddendly let slip one day, and it broke my heart. My relationship with her will never be the same again sadly. How awful for someone to find out as an adult that they don't actually know who their genetic mother is... I would say the fallout from that would be 1000 times worse than the awkward first conversation with a child saying that they came from a donor egg.

StrictlyTory - there is no 'first awkward conversation' if you are honest with your children from the outset - you tell them the moment they start asking questions and then it just becomes part of who they are, there is nothing awkward about it.

I mean it might feel awkward for the OP to say outloud to her child that they have another Mother. I don't expect if you do it early it's awkward at all for the child, just a fact they will grow up knowing.

People who know all the facts about themselves from an early age will adjust much better than people who believe a set of events until 25 and then find out that it's not actually true!

Umm... they don't have another mother, there is a kind lady who gave mummy and daddy an egg to help them have a baby. She is not their mother.