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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Female violence towards men

169 replies

yorkshireblue · 10/09/2010 23:00

I have noticed a lot of posts which state violence towards males.
Is it ok for females to say these things towards males?
If this was dadsnet and these comments where aimed at women what would be the outcome?
Female violence is as bad as male violence

OP posts:
Pan · 11/09/2010 16:50

[[2.3
Homicides
Homicide statistics provide information about the relationship between the victim and the suspect, thus offering an insight into a particularly serious manifestation of domestic violence. 47 per cent of the 3,249 women murdered since 1995, and 12 per cent of the 6,806 men, were killed by a partner or ex-partner. menwomen0204060801001201401995199619971998/991999/002000/012001/022002/032003/042004/052005/062006/072007/082008/09Homicides where victim is partner/ex-partner of suspect, by]] really messy link - out of practice!

to my pathetic maths, it reveals 812 murders of men by their partner or ex partner - gender not shown - in the last 5 years. Divide that by the 60 months involved and we have 13.5 per month.

This sounds like an enormous amount. Anyone please refute this?

SleepingLion · 11/09/2010 16:54

Vesuvia wrote: "Any "what about the womenz" on this thread is trying to draw attention to something that happens to many more women and fewer men."

So? This is a thread about female violence towards men. Why is it all right for this thread to be derailed but not the threads in the feminist topic?

As others have said, is it because not enough men are abused in comparison to women? Do we have to see an increase in the incidents of domestic violence towards men before we're allowed to talk about it as a problem?

I agree with Ryuk - "Saltatrix, because if we start suggesting women can be perpetrators, then everyone will stop believing that they can also be victims too, because the haloic and downtrodden aura of the entire gender would be besmirched." There are a number of posters on MN who do seem to like 'woman' and 'victim' to be synonymous.

Pan · 11/09/2010 16:55

if you wish the full pdf doc., which is only a few pages long, google "domestic violence statistics" and it's about 2/3rd down on 1st page, HoC site and the author is a Gavin Thompson.

vesuvia · 11/09/2010 17:35

Pan, the statistics in the report are for 1995 to 2009, so 180 months not 60.

The report is [[http://www.parliament.uk/briefingpapers/commons/lib/research/briefings/snsg-00950.pdf House of Commons Library Domestic violence statistics
Standard Note: SN/SG/950
Last updated: 10th March 2010]].

This report therefore gives the following more recent, longer-term average statistic than I posted earlier :

4 males and 8 females murdered per month in the UK by a partner or ex-partner.

Again, the sex of the murderer is not given in the report.

Pan · 11/09/2010 17:40

Gulp. I missed 10 years!! Not unusual for me.

thanks for putting it right.

Snorbs - I stand corrected, you were so right and I am sorry for whatever happened twix you and partner.

vesuvia · 11/09/2010 17:41

SleepingLion wrote - "Do we have to see an increase in the incidents of domestic violence towards men before we're allowed to talk about it as a problem?"

No we don't need to see an increase. We are already discussing the problem.

BarmyArmy · 11/09/2010 17:55

spikeycow - the irony of your name is not lost on anyone here. Such a blinkered and one-sided contribution is no contribution at all...so your 'bowing out' is perhaps for the best all round.

NickOfTime · 11/09/2010 18:14

well, that's great. i was quite proud of my first class degree until that. Hmm
weirdly, it hasn't ever stopped me seeing more than one side of a story, but perhaps i'm just not using it right.

i'd like to see more support for male victims of dv tbh. that doesn't lessen the necessity for more support for female victims, it's just different.

about three years ago there was a big poster campaign re same sex dv, anyone remember it? every government building i went it had posters about violence in same-sex relationships... but again, i think little support available for those that need it.

Miggsie · 11/09/2010 18:34

I think the problem society has with female on male violence is firstly, we have this culture where women have to be loving, caring and nurturing and passive, so turning that view around to say women can be assertive, and then onto controlling and violent is difficult for people.

Then, when you look at abuse, the main point is that abusers generally pick on someone who won't fight back, this is how abuse, particularly in relationships, goes on and on for many years.

Women who don't fight back are often financially and emotionally dependent on their abuser. The practical problems of them moving out are quite large, they may become homeless, they many have no money, they often have children whom they cannot support financially. Perhaps their partner is very big and strong and they are physically intimidated.

Men who don't fight back are unlikely to be financially dependent on the abuser but they have some mechanism that is stopping them from standing up for themselves. Perhaps they hate confrontation (which is why the abuser picked on them in the first place), perhaps they feel "you shouldn't hit women" or stay through obligation, or embarrassment.

A man who doesn't leave is likely to be disbelieved because, in most cases, he financially could leave, he would still work, still have his salary, still have the means to live and eat. The man is alsophysically larger generally. Thus the disbelief is higher "what is stopping him leaving?" It is also felt, I think that a woman can't really physically hurt a man in the same way a man can hurt a woman. (A woman is unlikley to be able to strangle her partner). So men abused by women are seen as a small problem or a bit of a joke. A big bloke doesn't get a lot of sympathy from society for anything really.

The recognition of controlling and manipulative behaviour (emotional abuse)is still poorly recognised by a lot of people and the "cycle of abuse" is not a mainstream idea and so the mental pressure to remain with an abuser is discounted from the equation when "judging" the abused. Thus a woman who has 4 cracked ribs and a black eye is judged to have a reason to move, a woman or man who is undermined, controlled and abused emotionally is so difficult to spot that it is ignored.

HerBeatitude · 11/09/2010 18:39

Has anyone actually argued that this sort of violent language against men is acceptable on MN (or in RL for that matter)? I don't think they have. They've merely argued that in the context we live in, they're not as frightening as violent language against women because they're less likely to be acted out. But of course violent language isn't acceptable, it's uncivilised.

Incidentally in RL (not sure if it's true on MN) I find this language is always used by women who don't self-identify as feminists - the "all men are bastards" brigade, who minimise bad behaviour by men as being par for the course, because "that's just what they do" and encourage other women to put up with bad behaviour from men because apparantly that's just normal. Exactly the sort of women who tell you you're being unrealistic to expect any better from men, because they are no better, don't you know they're all bastards? The ones who have an incredibly low opinion of men and then have the cheek to call feminists man-haters. Hmm

Caveat: This does not mean I'm saying that all non feminist women use this language, before I'm accused of saying that.

NickOfTime · 11/09/2010 18:53

miggs, the bloke here that got stabbed by his wife had kids. to leave her would mean leaving his kids. with her.

there was nowhere for him to go - she lived in the family home, he was the breadwinner. there are no shelters for men locally.

as it happened, he was removed from the house for his own safety (once he was out of hospital) and found temp accom for a few weeks - but that was only offered because she was charged with attempted murder. to try and get emergency housing without that pretext was impossible.

suffice to say, he's now gone back (again) and she's having anger/ alcohol counselling (again).

if the woman was in that situation i'd be saying, 'don't go back - there is help available. you don't have to.'

but as a bloke, i don't know what to say to him. there is no help available other than that given to her because she tried to kill him.

i'm aghast that no-one is looking out for the kids in these situations. the authoroties would rather they stayed with the (violent) mother than support the father to remove them. (that may not be specifically true Grin, but that's what it feels like)

i think that's why i get more vociferous about all aspects of dv. it's always discussed int erms of gender rather than in terms of individual well-being - the men, women, and children involved.

Snorbs · 11/09/2010 19:10

NickOfTime, indeed. I stayed in an abusive relationship for years because I couldn't face leaving my children behind but could see no other way of ensuring their safety or maintaining a relationship with them. My ex had already threatened that if I did leave then she'd make it very difficult for me to see my kids.

Luckily for me my ex wasn't nearly as dangerous as the woman you talk about. Nevertheless there were occasions when she was so far out of control that I did genuinely worry for my safety.

Snorbs · 11/09/2010 19:12

Incidentally, you may want to point the man you know in the direction of the Men's Advice Line. ManKind is also well worth a try.

Pan · 11/09/2010 19:16

Snorbs - can I ask how things have worked out now re your little one's? Tell me not to ask if you wish.

NickOfTime · 11/09/2010 19:17

snorbs, were you ever worried about the children? (apols - ignore if too personal, am thinking more about physical than psychological) i think it must be awful to try and balance personal safety against leaving children with a 'carer' who experiences periods of loss of control for whatever reason.

i'm so sorry for your experiences, truly - i think it's really important that men are able to speak out about their own experiences - not to 'balance' some mythical scales of justice, but just so that more people are aware of the realities of other experience.

maryz · 11/09/2010 19:18

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Message withdrawn at poster's request.

NickOfTime · 11/09/2010 19:21

that wasn't very well put, sorry. i was just thinking that children's services left the children with the mother, here, because she had never physically attacked them. (the eldest child would routinely hide all knives and objects that could be used in an attack when she was drunk)

i can't imagine the psychological damage done to those young people - but in the eyes of the state, it was ok, because she'd never hit them, only her husband.

thanks for the link, btw.

BoneyBackJefferson · 11/09/2010 19:27
maryz · 11/09/2010 19:33

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NickOfTime · 11/09/2010 19:35

i could barely breathe for weeks - i was furious at the injustice of it. but people looked at me as if i was mad.

i'm still furious about it tbh, but am trying to keep my blood pressure down.

maryz · 11/09/2010 19:45

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Snorbs · 11/09/2010 19:47

My ex also has alcohol problems. All the bad episodes occurred when she was drunk.

What happened in the end was that I realised I had to end the relationship as the stress was causing me to be physically ill. And I had reached a point where I realised I had nothing left to lose so I started standing up for myself and managed to get my ex (in a sober moment) to agree to 50:50 child residency.

A few months after she moved out Social Services got involved due to her drinking herself insensible while she was supposed to be looking after our DCs. Social Services then decided that our DCs needed to stay full-time with me as the Child Protection case conference viewed their mum as liable to cause them severe emotional harm due to neglect.

I don't think my ex would ever deliberately seriously harm our DCs. Although that may change as they get older and answer back more. But when she's drunk she is incapable of looking after them properly.

maryz · 11/09/2010 19:54

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NickOfTime · 11/09/2010 19:55

that sounds very hard. it does seem that the best possible option has been reached out of difficult circumstances though. very brave decision.

sprogger · 11/09/2010 20:02

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