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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

... to Protest the Pope?

508 replies

stubbornhubby · 08/09/2010 09:03

A friend of mine told me at the weekend that this will make me an extremist...anyway we had a long thread about this in July and a few people said they'd be keen, like me, to wave a banner as he parades around the country.

There's a big march in London on Sat 18th, Hyde park Corner @ 1.30pm
details here
www.protest-the-pope.org.uk/

Also, if you live in SW London, a Small demo in Strawberry Hill on Fri 17th @9am. (NB official visti website says you will not be able to see the pope arrriving/departing SMUC - I think he must be using helicopter. Or apparating Smile)

OP posts:
stubbornhubby · 15/09/2010 13:30

the pope arrives tomorrow - choose your protest site here
www.protest-the-pope.org.uk/

Plus - people might like this very measured, sensible editorial in the independent, explaining why this visti should not have been a STATE visit.

www.independent.co.uk/opinion/leading-articles/leading-article-a-mistake-of-state-2079309.html

OP posts:
StrictlyTory · 15/09/2010 13:36

The Pope arrives tomorrow. Maybe just maybe, the 6 million Catholics who live here could actually be allowed to enjoy a once in a lifetime chance to see God's representative on earth...

If I wasn't a week away from DC2 there is nothing in life that I would like more than to have seen him Sad

The Catholic church has made mistakes, noone denies that, but the majority of Catholics who have done nothing wrong deserve a chance to see the Pope without people screaming abuse and throwing things.

stubbornhubby · 15/09/2010 13:43

strictlytory - actually if you look you'll see that the Pope will not be present at any of these organised protests.

OP posts:
Tiredmumno1 · 15/09/2010 13:43

Oh good grief, stop wasting yours and everybody elses time.

What do you expect to get out of it?

xstitch · 15/09/2010 13:46

please don't take to the streets to protest. My day tomorrow is going to be bad enough as it is. Already I am going to have to spend longer travelling to work than I am actually going to spend at work. Big protests are only going to make this even worse.

Having said that you have every right to disagree with the pope and what you believe he stands for. A lot of people are going to be severely inconvenienced by the logistics of this visit so please don't make it worse.

musicmadness · 15/09/2010 13:46

go for it, I'd much rather he didn't come anywhere near this country. Its mostly his rampant homophobia that pisses me off but the rest of the crap certainly doesn't help. I know loads of Catholics who don't go around discriminating against people or encouraging people to discriminate against others, too bad one of them isn't leading the catholic church!

It shouldn't be classed as a state visit either, if it was really a state visit he wouldn't be touring the country for religious reasons as well!

StrictlyTory · 15/09/2010 13:49

They expect Catholics to hate themselves for following a religion most were born to. To make all Catholics feel like they are somehow personally responsible for all abuse that has ever happened.

Oh and naturally, to ruin as far as possible something that most of us will probably never live to see again.

OhYouBadBadKitten · 15/09/2010 13:51

not true stubbornhubby - the Edinburgh one is on Lothian road - part of the route the Pope will be travelling.

stubbornhubby · 15/09/2010 14:21

ah, you are right.

OP posts:
wallydog · 15/09/2010 14:56

Well I'm just against paying over 12million for him to come here out of my tax money when I'm not even Catholic!
I also don't agree with some of the rules they have.

tokyonambu · 15/09/2010 15:01

Apparently, the Pope's entourage believe that Britain is a third world country, and that passengers on BA who are Christian are discriminated against (www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/sep/15/popes-visit-aide-dropped). Ratzinger really is the perfect guest, isn't it? So graceful. So charming.

MrsMadWriggle · 15/09/2010 15:28

He has a right to come.
People have the right to object to him coming.

It's free speech.

StrictlyTory
"Maybe just maybe, the 6 million Catholics who live here could actually be allowed to enjoy a once in a lifetime chance to see God's representative on earth..."

No problem as long as the 6m catholics pay a couple of quid each for his visit. Bargain for "God's representative".

Confuzzeled · 15/09/2010 15:39

StrictlyTory
"Maybe just maybe, the 6 million Catholics who live here could actually be allowed to enjoy a once in a lifetime chance to see God's representative on earth..."

Right I got a cheap flight to Rome, cost about £20, stayed in a youth hostel for £17 a night. I happened to venture into the Vatican on a wednesday morning and got to see the Pope. It was like seeing royalty from another country, I really couldn't care less. It wasn't hard and it didn't cost allot. You want to see your king or religion, save a few quid and go see him, don't expect people of the whole country to pay for him.

MorrisZapp · 15/09/2010 15:42

Well, he's going to pass right under my window as I live on his route. I think he'll be in a secure vehicle then though, not the Popemobile so I might just see the top of a big car. Really weird seeing all the barriers up in Bruntsfield today - I can hardly imagine all the students are going to drag themselves downstairs to wave at the Pontiff but what do I know.

I think that anybody who wishes to wave at the Pope should do so, and anybody who wishes to protest should also do so, as long as both do so peacefully and with respect for the safety of others.

It isn't 1982 any more, is it. I think we have moved on from simply accepting dogma from our church leaders. Not that I'm religious anyway.

Oblomov · 15/09/2010 15:57

why should we pay for the popes visit ? should we pay for french presidents's, US presidents vists and such aswell.
mind you, its not right that it costs so much to have him here. mind up Prince Charles costs us a fortune. mind you don't we pay a fortune for tony blair to go jogging around the world also ?
oh i don't know. ds1, at a catholic school, is very excited !!! suppose they must have sold it to him, at school ?

lal123 · 15/09/2010 16:05

Strictly Tory "Maybe just maybe, the 6 million Catholics who live here could actually be allowed to enjoy a once in a lifetime chance to see God's representative on earth..."

So - given that you believe he is God's representative on earth - do you believe and agree with his stance on contraception which is currently causing millions in the developing world to refuse to use condoms and thus helping to spread AIDs and end up with thousands of unwanted children being abandoned? Very "Christian" of you...

Noellefielding · 15/09/2010 16:16

I think paying of the Pope's visit is perfectly reasonable as he is a head of state who also represents, to some extent, one thousand million Roman Catholics on the planet.

If we could work out how many pounds sterling in taxes Roman Catholics have paid over the last few hundred years I'm sure there would be enough to cover it.

I'm lapsed and not defending anyone. I just think to look at the Pope solely through the eyes of this tragic and appalling history of child abuse scandals is, however shocking, a bit limited.

The church is in trouble and has overseen and been responsible for bad things. But it's an ancient organisation and moves very slowly. I'm not defending anything I'm just arguing for a broader historical view.

The west is too quick to look at the RCC in terms only of contraception, clerical celibacy, patriarchy and the horror of the history of clerical child abuse etc. These things are massive and present and some are indefensible.

BUT these on their own do not describe the whole RCC, there is good within it and it's a massive support and network of people who are not all bad. The Pope means a lot to a lot of British taxpayers (not all of course) and I think they deserve their spiritual leader to come.

I think this outburst is partly empowered by deep rooted and subconscious Anti-Catholicism which runs old and deep in the UK, perhaps understandably but imo out of date and pretty nasty. My fil says "Catholic" as other people might say "Bastard!" or "Dirty pig!"
I think it's offensive and it shows a real prejudice and a lack of self-knowledge. People wouldn't express racism at happily as they do this.

And no I DO NOT defend any abuse of children OR the cover up of such abuse. That is indefensible of course. I just see the church as bigger than just his terrible crime. I think the perpetrators of child abuse have filled many of institutions who have access to children and probably to an extent still do. No one in my experience is more shrewd or manipulating than a paedophile.

Tiredmumno1 · 15/09/2010 16:20

I am sure that catholics do not agree with everything the pope says, it isnt a cult.

It is there faith and if they see the pope as gods representative, then thats up to them surely.

MorrisZapp · 15/09/2010 16:21

He isn't a head of state though in most people's minds, he's a religious leader, which is very different.

I know that technically he is a head of state but it's a bit of a stretch isn't it.

My own anti Catholicism lies purely with it's teachings, not it's followers who I respect as individuals.

I don't think anything bad of Catholic people, but I will criticise the teachings of their religion while I have breath in my body.

Tiredmumno1 · 15/09/2010 16:29

Morris, what kind of teachings are you talking about?

Out of curiousity Smile

Noellefielding · 15/09/2010 16:34

I think it is a sign of respect to the active Roman Catholic population to welcome their religious leader to this country. It means an enormous amount to many devout Catholics. Many of these people are older people who have no clout in the media at all and also no profile!

Of course the church is deep in doo doo right now. But this Pope is old and won't be around forever. The next Pope has a chance to perhaps respond to modern times a little bit more than this one has. But the Pope isn't just a man, he's a representative. And I respect those who respect him despite the mess and the tragedy and the horror of what was done to children. I think history is a long long story and it's unwise to throw the baby out with the bath water (like they did in Germany in the 30s). Better look at the long view and say I don't agree with some of the church teachings but many do and some of the teachings are fine and the Pope can come because many many UK Catholics want him to come. They're tax payers too.

Sassybeast · 15/09/2010 16:38

Getting off to a great start innit ?

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-11317441

curryfreak · 15/09/2010 16:41

Noellefielding, i think you've really nailed it by saying there is a deep rooted anti-catholiciss in this country. I think Catholics have always been maligned and marginalised.
As for the cost. This is a non- arguement and extremely lame.
I think some posters on here are in for a bit of a let down. I think the visit will pass off as unremarkable,- those who want to see the pope will, and those who want to protest will, as is their right to do.I suspect the anti papists are looking for a bun fight though, and almost rubbing their hands in anticipation.

There have been far more repellent people than the pope invited to this country with all the trappings of a state visit.
I strongly suspect, there are just a lot of people who hate catholics and try to dress it up any which way.

Sassybeast · 15/09/2010 16:41

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-11317441

even Hmm

slug · 15/09/2010 16:43

"One of the Pope's senior advisers has pulled out of the papal visit to Britain, after reportedly saying the UK is a "Third World country" marked by "a new and aggressive atheism".

Cardinal Walter Kasper, 77, made the remarks in a German magazine interview.

The Vatican said the cardinal had not intended "any kind of slight", and was referring to the UK's multicultural society."

Gotta laugh. It's not you personally folks, it's just that you're multicultural. Hmm

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