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AIBU?

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Original poster

... to Protest the Pope?

508 replies

stubbornhubby · 08/09/2010 09:03

A friend of mine told me at the weekend that this will make me an extremist...anyway we had a long thread about this in July and a few people said they'd be keen, like me, to wave a banner as he parades around the country.

There's a big march in London on Sat 18th, Hyde park Corner @ 1.30pm
details here
www.protest-the-pope.org.uk/

Also, if you live in SW London, a Small demo in Strawberry Hill on Fri 17th @9am. (NB official visti website says you will not be able to see the pope arrriving/departing SMUC - I think he must be using helicopter. Or apparating Smile)

OP posts:
wisteria12 · 09/09/2010 16:07

I don't mind him visiting, what I'm angry about is that the taxpayer in general, no matter what faith they are, has to pay for it. We have billions of pounds of debt without looking after him and his entourage. You think that with the fact that the Vatican is one of the most financially unshakeable and thus rich states on earth that he could have a little charity and pay his own way. Or, the churches here could raise money for his visit, if they really want to see him come. Or, even better, the church in general here, aso being extremely rich, could fund it.

OP - You have a right to protest. Exercise it if you will. Personally I see little point - the Catholics in Britain have an equal right to express their faith, and if you don't agree with their support, then act indifferently; neither enthusiastically or angrily.

mixedmamameansbusiness · 09/09/2010 16:18

I just dont get it. He is a head of state of sorts and there are lots of Catholics who presumably want to see him and may never get to St Marks Sqaure. For my part (not Catholic or particularly active in my chosen religion) would quite like to see him. It will be a histroic moment.

Original poster
stubbornhubby · 09/09/2010 16:49

the last Pope just came on his own accord, not as head of state, not on a state visit.

that was much more appropriate.

OP posts:
gorionine · 09/09/2010 16:50

TechLovingDad Thu 09-Sep-10 15:29:27

""Here's what really gets me about the Pope and the paedophile priests.

They believe God sees and knows all. They believe God will judge them. They commit, condone, or cover up horrific acts.

Either they are happy to be judged and go to Hell, or they don't believe in God.

Weird.""

Your post has really shaken me. Real food for thought.

mixedmamameansbusiness Thu 09-Sep-10 16:18:55

"I just dont get it. He is a head of state of sorts and there are lots of Catholics who presumably want to see him and may never get to St Marks Sqaure. For my part (not Catholic or particularly active in my chosen religion) would quite like to see him. It will be a histroic moment."

I am not a Catholic but was thinking like you, that is until it was mentionned that Pilgrims would have to pay an entrance fee to see him. That sound more Rockstar like than Catholifc state leader.

tokyonambu · 09/09/2010 17:09

"Either they are happy to be judged and go to Hell, or they don't believe in God."

The fallacy there is that of the excluded middle, or perhaps a false dichotomy. Another possibility is that they do not believe that their acts are sinful. And given that the Catholic church on earth is relaxed about child rape - after all, people are excommunicated for all sorts of things, but not child rape by priests - it would be reasonable to argue that as the Church embodies God's will, and the Church approves of child abuse, God probably does as well.

Ratzinger disapproves of child rape until that disapproval might involve standing up to another priest. At which point, his cowardice reasserts itself. No priest has yet been punished by the church for child rape.

TechLovingDad · 09/09/2010 17:14

But why? They are supposed to protect and provide for children and those who are vulnerable. Unless "Suffer the little children to come unto me" was uttered with a bag of sweets in hand.

If you join the priesthood to do God's work, where does God say "shag the children"? It is indefensible.

DameYankee · 09/09/2010 17:20

"Bernard Law cannot leave the Vatican to visit any country with an extradition treaty with the US...."

Cardinal Law comes and goes from the US frequently. There is no warrant out for his arrest, he is not facing any charges in any civil court.

tokyonambu · 09/09/2010 17:25

I think it's a lot more complex than that. People manage to commit acts of evil, that they may judge as evil in others, and yet justify it to themselves. The Shoah would be a lot easier to explain had all the perpetrators been thugs like Franz Stangl (commandant of Treblinka and Sobidor).

But they weren't, and an awful lot of cultured and educated people, who read Goethe and listened to Bach, stepped up to the killing plate when asked, and in some cases brought their wives along to watch, and didn't just kill people on an industrial scale but also with unremitting sadism. Somehow they managed to separate that from any sense that they themselves were evil, and after the war returned to their bourgeois jobs in small German towns.

If we understood that, how people commit acts of huge evil without seemingly seeing it as evil, we would all be a lot better off.

SeaTrek · 09/09/2010 17:26

YABU

What is the point? Wasting police time is all you will be doing.

The pope IS coming and there will be LOTS of people who want him to come.

It would be great if everyone made decisions that didn't end up costing the tax payer millions but it is just one of many, at least it is bringing some people some happiness. Unlike spending millions on sorting out pre-schoolers tooth decay for example.

mrsruffallo · 09/09/2010 17:29

I don't know- do you protest against Islamic leaders visiting too?
I bet I know the answer

Original poster
stubbornhubby · 09/09/2010 17:35

mrsruffallo what islamic leaders do you have in mind?

if the local mosque invites an imam from pakistan to do a sermon -- of course not

if the Ayatollah of Iran was ever to visit my corner of London, at taxpayers expense, and parade up and down around the streets for acclamation then I would turn out and boo. You bet I would.

When the chinese government brought their stupid olympic torch to london, I booed that at as well.

OP posts:
newwave · 09/09/2010 17:36

MrsRuffalo

Islam does not have "leaders" as such and no equivalent of the pope, they do have "scholars" some of which are as unsavoury as the Pope

curryfreak · 09/09/2010 18:00

I think catholic bashing has almost become a sport now, and is very very lazy.
Why dont all you "protesters' do something that actually matters. How about volenteering to work with children or adults if you're so concerned with the victims of abuse?
I think not though {hmm} I'm sure it wouldn't give you quite the thrill, that waving a placard and chanting anti papal drivel in public would.

edam · 09/09/2010 19:20

yeah right curryfreak, it's clearly wrong of anyone to object to institutionalised child abuse. Hmm Those who protest about it are clearly just prejudiced against peadophiles...

Original poster
stubbornhubby · 09/09/2010 19:36

curryfreak at the moment the catholics are only world religion holding public parades all around the country, hobnobbing with the great and good, and inviting the populace to clap and cheer.

it's quite out of order, and they deserve a boo.

OP posts:
Aminata100 · 09/09/2010 19:40

OP has paid her taxes too, so has every right to protest (and good for them!), what rubbish to tell her she is wasting police time!

Just because she is not "of your faith" or mindset, doesn't mean she doesn't have the same right as you, thank God we live in a country where you are free to express your opinions!

And Tokyo, following your posts with interest, cos didn't know that history (in that part of the world), even tho my dad was in the resistance...(they don't talk about it).

Let's not even go to what they did to "the -Caribbean and the South - Americas"!! Blush

StrictlyTory · 10/09/2010 09:23

No actually Tokyo again you are totally ignorant of the point. My son is German as are many of my friends and you know what? Many of their parents were forced to join the Hitler Youth as children and yet do not spend every waking moment thinking of ways to murder Jews. To be German does not make you a Nazi just as being Japanese does not make you a Kamakaze pilot. Does it don't diminish the evil of real Nazis to brand children who were forced to join the HY in the same way as those who actually picked up a gun and shot Jewish children in the head?

You mention a 6 year old, which is of course a pitiful attempt to make the Pope look like some kind of monster as he was 14. Stephen Hawking understands the space time ratio, but I confess to not really getting a lot of it... Because we are actually not all the same person! Some people have the ability AND circumstances which allow them to do incredible things, others do not. Do you judge everyone as being stupid who doesn't gain a PhD is astrophysics? No, we accept not everyone is cut out for astrophysics.

Again you show you ignorance in assuming I don't know what the Righteous Among Nations is. Well as someone who has actually been on a pilgramage to Israel I can assure you that I am more than aware.

StrictlyTory · 10/09/2010 09:23

Does is not diminish

Original poster
stubbornhubby · 10/09/2010 09:34

but strictlytory the difference is that your german friends aren't parading around london expounding moral certainties, expecting the acclamation of the crowds.

OP posts:
tokyonambu · 10/09/2010 09:42

"Do you judge everyone as being stupid who doesn't gain a PhD is astrophysics? "

If they're on a visit to London to tell us about their expertise in astrophysics, then yes, I do. Brian May didn't need to complete his PhD in order to play guitar with a popular beat combo. He did in order to be thought of as a serious astrophysicist.

When your German friends stand on stages to tell us that they are moral paragons fit to judge the sinners, we might need to analyse their actions in 1944. As, presumably, they are not, it is a private matter for their own thoughts.

jenny60 · 10/09/2010 09:52

OP: YANBU an I will see you there at the protest. And I will see you at the next protest against any religious leader who comes here at our expense and who stands for defending child rapists, homophobia, misogyny and oh, yes, telling people in Africa not to wear condoms.

I am tired of religious people being able to say and do things that simply would not be acceptable if they were said/done in the secular world. That goes for all of them.

tokyonambu: great, great posts.

tokyonambu · 10/09/2010 10:29

Have you noticed that "ignorant" is a word used almost exclusively by the religious to describe people who don't agree with them?

jenny60 · 10/09/2010 11:14

Yes

sandybumcrack · 10/09/2010 11:54

edam You child abuse makes you angry.Do something about this
for all you people who are angered by child abuse and coverups take a look at this
This is a big problem in towns in the north ef England
Who remembers the Channel4or 5 tv documentory called The edge of the city which was about Pakistani peadophile rings in Bradford?
This programme was pulled at the last minute because of pressure from the community and its leaders involved
I will get called racist for this and the comment might be removed it is about non white Christians

edam · 10/09/2010 12:07

Child abuse is bad no matter who the abuser is. Pointing out not all abusers are white doesn't make abuse by Catholic priests OK. (And Catholic priests are not universally white anyway - so it's a false dichotomy.)

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