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AIBU?

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Original poster

... to Protest the Pope?

508 replies

stubbornhubby · 08/09/2010 09:03

A friend of mine told me at the weekend that this will make me an extremist...anyway we had a long thread about this in July and a few people said they'd be keen, like me, to wave a banner as he parades around the country.

There's a big march in London on Sat 18th, Hyde park Corner @ 1.30pm
details here
www.protest-the-pope.org.uk/

Also, if you live in SW London, a Small demo in Strawberry Hill on Fri 17th @9am. (NB official visti website says you will not be able to see the pope arrriving/departing SMUC - I think he must be using helicopter. Or apparating Smile)

OP posts:
tokyonambu · 15/09/2010 16:45

"I know that technically he is a head of state"

A state created by Mussolini (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lateran_Treaty), as it happens. Nice.

Tiredmumno1 · 15/09/2010 16:46

As per usual the media stirring

MorrisZapp · 15/09/2010 16:48

tiredmum, the anti abortion stance and the opposition to teaching kids about contraception are two off the top of my head.

I taught very briefly in a RC school and found it v difficult to look supportive of this.

It's far too easy to say 'well if you don't like what the RC church says then you must just hate Catholics', this argument is used endlessly on threads about Islam too.

It is possible in the modern world to respect everybody, whilst disagreeing with their political beliefs, religious beliefs etc. I'm used to saying openly when I disagree with things, without having to face lame accusations of prejudice. If you don't agree with me, I will assume it is the content of my opinion that you don't agree with, and not that you just think I personally am scum or whatever.

tokyonambu · 15/09/2010 16:49

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by Mumsnet.

StripeyMoon · 15/09/2010 16:49

Noellefielding agree completely, particularly with regard to the thinly veiled anti catholic undercurrent in the UK.

tokyo, if you are unhappy about paying your taxes towards this visit then please go and protest the person who represents the people who made that decision on your behalf. Your MP.

tokyonambu · 15/09/2010 16:50

"tokyo, if you are unhappy about paying your taxes towards this visit then please go and protest the person who represents the people who made that decision on your behalf. Your MP."

As, indeed, I have done. But as one of the main events is in this constituency, he wasn't terribly rational, and started wittering on about "creating jobs".

StripeyMoon · 15/09/2010 16:51

maligning and margininalisation by threads like this for a start tokyo, and particularly your comment above!

MorrisZapp · 15/09/2010 16:54

So, StripeyMoon, if I slag off our Prime Minister, David Cameron, will you feel maligned and marginalised? If I say 'I hate the Tories stance on taxation' will you think I am being prejudiced towards you personally?

Or will you feel that is is actually OK to criticise a leader without it meaning that you have no respect for his followers/ subjects/ whatever?

StripeyMoon · 15/09/2010 16:58

Perhaps so Morris, depends on what you're saying to be truthful.

Original poster
stubbornhubby · 15/09/2010 16:59

the head of state is a bit of a red herring:

the last papal vist was NOT a state visit. the pope came simply as a religious leader.

there was no need for this Pope's visit to be a state visit. it was a mistake of Blair's to invite him and IMO a misjudgement on his part to accept.

he should have visited his own flock, as a church leader, paying his own way.

OP posts:
tokyonambu · 15/09/2010 17:01

"maligning and margininalisation by threads like this for a start tokyo, and particularly your comment above!"

Diddums.

MorrisZapp · 15/09/2010 17:04

Well stripey, I truthfully believe in a woman's right to choose a termination.

That is the truth.

Am I allowed to say as much to people who don't feel the same way, or am I being prejudiced to air my views?

tokyonambu · 15/09/2010 17:04

"depends on what you're saying to be truthful."

What? You mean Ratzinger is, in fact, a firm opponent of child abuse and is going to get tough on people by throwing them out of the church? When that happens, we can all take it back. Until then, we're paying a lot of money for a doddering fool who colludes with child abusers to come here and try to tell us about morality. One day Ratzinger will actually decide to punish someone for raping children. When he does, he can talk about morality. For now, he's too busy making excuses.

StripeyMoon · 15/09/2010 17:04

You seem to be getting awfully wound up with your posts tokyo, perhaps you need to go away and spend some quiet time painting your banner.

coodles · 15/09/2010 17:04

I heard ticket sales were slow.........maybe this apathyand indifference is the best sort of protest

tokyonambu · 15/09/2010 17:08

"perhaps you need to go away and spend some quiet time painting your banner."

Obviously you're more skilled at being relaxed about child abuse than I am. I'm sorry: I'll try to find it as acceptable as you do.

MorrisZapp · 15/09/2010 17:08

Is that supposed to be any kind of meaningful riposte Stripey.

Tickets haven't shifted as much as hoped up here, they're going to bus in schoolkids.

Sassybeast · 15/09/2010 17:11

Stripey - care to comment on Ratzingers approach to child rapists ? Do you agree with his stance ?

curryfreak · 15/09/2010 17:11

tokyo, t?he pope is not my leader. When did i say that
hovever, i'm not going to enlighten you about the histoty of catholicism and the way catholics in this country have been treated throughout the centuries.
Go away and read about it yourself, or maybe you're too busy painting your banner.

MorrisZapp · 15/09/2010 17:16

Oh hurrah, the 'educate yourself' argument.

How about you just give us some bullet points?

Or should we too refuse to state why we feel as we do, and ask you to do the research on our behalf?

Personally I don't doubt that Catholics have been much persecuted over history. Which is appalling.

But does that mean that today we have to agree with the teachings of Rome or else be accused of persecution? What if our own views and beliefs do not tally with those of the RC church?

Presumably Catholics do not believe what I believe - doesn't mean I would accuse them of persecuting me. In fact, they are doing something else: disagreeing with me. Which is legal and healthy.

tokyonambu · 15/09/2010 17:21

"i'm not going to enlighten you about the histoty of catholicism and the way catholics in this country have been treated throughout the centuries."

You really don't want to try the "oh, back in the sixteenth century" argument, because if what happened then is in play, you get to try to defend the Inquisition. Yes, in the past Catholics have been subject to oppression by Protestants. Now, tell me about the reign of Queen Mary, who as a good Catholic oh, yes, burnt around 300 dissenters at the stake.

Marjoriew · 15/09/2010 17:25

I hope you do go and protest, tokyonambu - I
would go with you if I could afford the trip. The problem is that people have become densitised where the abuse of chilren are concerned, especially so if it's in an historical context.
But remember this:

'If you tell anyone, you will be locked in the crypt until you learn your place'.
I did tell- it was relayed back to the parish priest and the nuns by my schoolteacher [ a good upstanding Catholic] and was duly locked in the crypt with the dead nuns and priests for a week.,
More than one of us absconded from the home. The police returned us, after beating the crap out of us, for 'slandering those nuns who have put a roof over your head, when no one wanted you.'
Obviously, there aren't many here who've had a priest's hand in their knickers aged 7 or 8 [yes, they liked little girls too].
My parish priest's favourite song was the Rose of Tralee, and I had to sing it to him while he enjoyed himself.
we children ate grass in the play yard while the priests feasted on the food provided for us out of the pockets of the people who lived around the home and who knew bloody well what was going on - or so they tell me now.
'What could we do? We would have lost our jobs, our homes?.'
My grandchildren ask me 'Where did you get those marks on your legs, you back and on bits of me I wouldn't show them? They are too young some of them know that there are some really nasty and evil people in this world. Why tarnish their innocence?
All of you good upstanding Catholics need to be watchful of your children because some years down the line, you might hear something from them that you would rather not,ab out the parish priest, or the new curate who is now a prominent figure in the Catholic Scottish hierarchy.
B

dittany · 15/09/2010 17:29

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

tokyonambu · 15/09/2010 17:44

Oh the Richard Williamson thing is a corker. It's rude to point out that Ratzinger was in the Hitler Youth. But it does seem odd that when the previous pope, whose record against fascism is impeccable, had expelled a notorious holocaust denier, Ratzinger should go out of his way to invite him back with open arms. Whyever would a man who was absolutely opposed to the Nazis (although not enough to do anything, of course) decide that what the Catholic Church needed back on its books was a widely publicised holocaust denier? It's odd, isn't it?

Ratzinger: coward about child abuse, coward about holocaust denial. Bernard Law and Richard Williamson: he picks his friends, doesn't he?

StrictlyTory · 15/09/2010 17:46

confuzzeled what a ridiculous comment! Many of the people who are coming out to see the Pope are elderly and couldn't make a trip to Rome and stay in a frigging Youth Hostel FFS! I am about to have a baby and certainly couldn't :( To have so little tollerance is a sad thing.

Also, we have a right to see him in our own country. That is something special, after all that's why we've been conned into paying for Olympics isn't it.... that's it's really special to host... and how much is that currently costing?

Oh and if one more person refers to the Holy Father Pope Benedict XVI as 'Ratzinger' like you've made up some really clever insult I swear I will go into 10 days premature labour!

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