Not Really AIBU but amusing twist on old favourite: Disabled/Baby Change Loos

[QueenSconetta]

I know its quite a regular topic here, and I myself have moaned complained whined discussed parents using a disabled toilets with their children.

The other day I was a supermarket in a different town and was quite amused to see all the old ladies going into the baby change room cos it was big enough to fit their trollies in! I did wonder how they got on with using the mini toilet though

One can never win this one me thinks.

Depends on the baby- my dd would have screamed the place down at 9 months unless she was asleep- I don't feel any guilt whatsoever at taking her in the disabled toilet, especially when it is empty.

Although I suppose it would have to be empty

Does it matter Riven that other parents are using it, does it need to be reserved exclusively for one small group of people?

Well of course it matters if others (who have other options available to them) using it makes it inaccessible to those who need it and who don't have other options.

there is no way i would leave a baby outside a cubicle, i couldnt give a big cock if that makes me a sissie

This is one of those issues that will never be resolved because the problems attached to it are circular in nature. There is a general lack of provision, tolerance and assistance for women with babies and pushchairs, therefore these women use facilities not necessarily designed for them, therefore people get cross with them and think "bloody pushchairs" and are less likely to offer to help a mum in the future, leading to more mums going into disabled facilities as a last resort and so on and so on.
My personal stance on it is the same as my position on disabled parking spaces. There are absolutely no normal circumstances which would induce me to use facilities intended for the use of disabled people. Of course I can evisage rare occasions such as an ill child which might lead to me mentally assigning the situation as an "emergency" and using the disabled toilets, but in everyday life, no. I would manage somehow. I do manage somehow. The reason for this stance is not because I have sat down an analysed queuing times, relative needs, the spectrum of diability, the purpose behind the provision of the facilities. It is because my very basic take on it is that if someone has a disability that in any way affects their ability to go about their normal day to day lives, it is my moral obligation as a member of society to do anything within my power to make their life a little less difficult.
I can understand why someone might resort to taking a pram into the disabled toilets but it is not something I would do and it is not something I agree with. The use of a pram is a choice. It is a convenient method of transporting a child. It is not, however, an absolute necessity. I don't use a pram and haven't used on at all since my nearly 14 month old son was 5 months old. I use a sling and we manage very well and avoid this dilemma. I don't say this to be smug (although I encourage anyone sick of labouring with a pram to give it a go - it makes life so much easier), but to make the point that non-disabled mothers of non-disabled children have choices that are not available to many disabled people.
If this stance makes me simplistic or naive then so be it. I made a choice at an early stage to avoid all these pitfalls and problems by simply not using a pram - it is a choice that is also open to many other women (obviously not including mothers of sextuplets, mothers with disabilities, mothers of children with disabilities etc etc before the "what about..." responses begin!). If someone chooses to make a different choice then so be it, but none of our choices should be at the expense of any other sector of society that is without those choices.
Finally, I agree that it is inappropriate to make loud comment on someone emerging from the disabled toilet. Judge them in the privacy of your own head with no consequence. Moan about them on this forum and risk argument and disagreement. But don't risk humiliating someone in public. I saw a family with two pre-teen children being prioritised on boarding a plane. There was lots of tutting and muttering around us and at first glance I did think "I wonder why they are being bumped up the queue". At second glance it was obvious to me, although not to many people around me judging from the continued muttering about the "queue jumping" and the behaviour of the children, that both children had special needs, probably ASD related. So the parents had to put up with audible moaning about their priority status AND about the children kicking off about waiting. They couldn't win!

how many times have you been to a disabled loo and found a queue of non disabled using it?

Good post annec555. It's basically how I try and operate when out and about with ds2 and ds3. Also am just grateful that everything is so much easier than when we have ds1 as well.

"Does it matter Riven that other parents are using it, does it need to be reserved exclusively for one small group of people?"

In the case especially of an adult/older child disabled changing facility, then yes it bloody well DOES need to be kept aside for one small group of people, because that group are the ones that don't have the option of using the other toilets.

i am always astounded on these threads by the jealousy shown by people going through the short inconvenience of a small child.
at most places you will find a few "normal" toilets and one disabled toilet(i am talking about disabled not the ones with baby changing shoved in)
surely you can let disabled people have one "perk"

"how many times have you been to a disabled loo and found a queue of non disabled using it?"

Well we don't queue. I have frequently found disabled toilets occupied but we are unable to hang around to find out who is in them. We just go to the Ladies and get tutted at instead.

As I said earlier in our case it makes life that little bit harder (I guess ds1 will reach an age when I really can't take him in the Ladies and then an occupied loo will make life really very difficult indeed) - for others it makes life very difficult.

If its occupied by a disabled person so be it. If it's occupied by someone who could have used other facilities then - as I said before- thanks a bunch.

It just strikes me that in relation to this topic, as well as many others, that a lot of people want to make a choice that is not the absolutely 100% best moral choice possible and not only have the benefits of that choice, but be somehow exempt from criticism for making the choice as well! So if you want to use facilities that are not intended for you, go right ahead and do it. But don't then try to persuade people that it is morally right for you to do so.

Riven:
"'reasons why the normal child comes first.'
Normal? "

I hope that wasn't directed at me - I simply quoted 3cutedarlings. It is certainly not a phrase I would generally employ.

You're absolutely right - provision for children/adults who need a hoist are pitiful. Who should I write to? Local MP? Number 10? Shopping centres? And what is the actual phrasing which should be used? 'Changing area for children and adults who require incontinence products to be changed with the help of a hoist'? I am really not the heartless callous person some people have painted me to be on this thread. I would like to try to make a difference.

AnnneC - I wanted a like button for your last comment! Too much FB-ing I think!

Riven - that's terrible, I shall be writing to people forthwith! TO as many shopping centres and places of interest as I have been to and noticed a lack in this dept!

Riven - just thinking about your campaign.

There must be numerous 'Changing area for children and adults who require incontinence products to be changed with the help of a hoist' around London. In Care homes? / hospitals? / Special schools? etc

How about campaigning for these facilities to be made available for any passing child or adult that requires them. I could see an iphone app that showed where the nearest facility was and you could just go along, knock on the door or whatever and ask to use the facility.

Also can the equipment you need be installed in a regular diabled loo ... if this were possible - then it is more likely that shopping centres etc could install them. But I think that you need to be looking a accepting a certain degree of dual use in order to increase your chance of success.

We were at a shopping centre the other week, actual disabled toilet out of action due to vandalism, so we had to use the larger cubicle in the ladies. To get in there, I had to remove one child from the SN buggy/ buggypod hellish combo, fold the pod, navigate a queue of people, help DS1 cover his ears and reassure him that it was only the driers making the noise, while carrying DS2, and so on - it wasn't a simple toilet stop. Especially since DS1 was at the point of wetting himself by this time - he had done extremely well to wait as long as he did, and I know he only braved the noise because he was so desperate.

I was going to write a letter, haven't yet. It is a bit more complex than some people think though, if the disabled toilets are out of action for whatever reason. Turns a 2 minute toilet stop into a 20 minute expedition.

DS HATED driers - with a passion, would scream and run in the opposite direction.

His cousin showed him how to "dry" his hair with them, and now, he can uncover his ears for long enough to get his hands dried at least, as long as he is allowed to "dry" his hair with it too!

blimey, i've posted the changing places campaign link on every thread like this i've seen. i assume most people just shrug and say 'nothing to do with me, won't bother.' it has been running for a couple of years at least!

at least riv's done it for me this time

So do you have to wait a long time in a que Riven because of all the mums in there? If this toilet is so busy with disabled children I can't imagine anyone else joining the que. Surely they nipped in there because it was empty and there wasn't a que and it would be easier for them with their children and pushchairs than the ordinary toilets. Just because you can choose any toilet doesn't mean you wouldn't take the opportunity to go in the empty disabled toilet.

Queue.