Not Really AIBU but amusing twist on old favourite: Disabled/Baby Change Loos

[QueenSconetta]

I know its quite a regular topic here, and I myself have moaned complained whined discussed parents using a disabled toilets with their children.

The other day I was a supermarket in a different town and was quite amused to see all the old ladies going into the baby change room cos it was big enough to fit their trollies in! I did wonder how they got on with using the mini toilet though

One can never win this one me thinks.

Shouldn't people be more concerned that disabled toilets are often locked and full of random crap that makes them inaccessible?

I never knew this until I had a baby and discovered that baby change facilities were in the disabled loos but I think it's pretty outrageous.

I think arguing that mums should be changing baby's bums on their knees in a normal cubicle or - ridiculously leaving a baby outside a cubicle on their own! -to avoid using the designated baby change table in the disabled loo is a nonsense. I am a pretty socially responsible person, don't bring a pushchair on public transport to avoid getting in the way of disabled people etc and will, if I can, bring ds with me to a loo.. but that is just craziness.

Once, I did come out of a disabled loo where I had changed ds (because it was signed as the baby change facility, not because I felt I had some other right over it) and a woman in a wheelchair was waiting. I felt horrendous.. but I just can't manage changin my son on the floor of a public toilet cubicle so it may well happen again.

Lots of sympathy for all the IBS sufferers too, my dh has this and it is a horrendous affliction and quite disabling. We have had some really uncomfortable experiences..

When I said mums should take their children into the toilet with them I meant toilet trained children. Not ones who need nappy changes.

I do think it's poor design to put the baby change into a disabled loo, but can see why businesses have to. And yes if it's there then that's where people have to use it.

I don't police disabled loos (!) if ds1 kicks off we just go to the Ladies. I only ever get annoyed by the occasional posts on here where there's a total lack of understanding of the needs of various disabilties.

Disabled does not always equal in a wheelchair.

Saintlydamemrsturnip, you said 'People would clearly rather watch a child hit his head, bite himself etc than give up their place in a queue.'

I would have absolutely no idea that this behaviour was a result of the queue, I have seen children act like this but am ignorant of why and would just quietly ignore it, thinking that was best. I would happily give up my place in a queue for you, would you consider asking if people mind if you go to the front?

The reason I say this is because I have been surprised at the number of people who have shooed me to the front of queues if I have a crying baby so I think people are generally nice if they can understand the need (although once I asked to go to the front of a pharmacy queue in Boots when DD was unexpectedly hungry and I had to stay there because I had to get some medicine and people in the queue said no, I didn't get my boob out there and then but I should have and have witnessed grown ups telling a desperate small boy to wait when he asked if he could go to the front in the ladies so some people are mean).

Also, I really agree with your point about all facilities being unisex and accessible, would solve a lot of problems IMO.

It would appear that after her revolting comments Runaway Wife has been shamed into silence! Good!!!

I'm with Galena.

I think it's pretty insulting to wheelchair users to assume that they must need the toilet before a crying baby does. I know quite a few disabled adults that would be fairly irritated that they were being patronised in that way, by just leting them go first so that they don't have to explain their needs to you.

Disabled people are just like the rest of us, they can usually ask if they need to go first in a queue for a disabled toilet, or a carer can do it for them. And sometimes disabled people might even need the facility less than a Mum who could be dealing with PND and a crying. Disabled people do sometimes take adavntage of their situation (not that I blame them) and they sometimes have an attitude that the world and his wife owes them a favour because they are disabled. The fact is that although of course they need and deserve accesible facilities, they are no different to everyone else.

Wcgrime - you said:

"But what if two people with bowel problems came along at the same time?, then one would have to wait and there would be a terrible accident. Anyone with such terrible bowel problems that they can't wait 2 minutes is probably not going to be out taking the the risk that someone else might be in a public toilet when they need it."

I have to tell you that this is absolute bollocks!! As I said earlier on in the thread, my irritable bowel syndrome can mean diarrhoea striking with almost no warning. Even at home, I sometimes only just make it to the loo in time.

However, I DO still go out in public - I make sure I know where the loos are, and I pay attention to my body, and act immediately if I feel the warning signs, and so far, I have never found myself in this condition and facing a queue in the Ladies.

Having IBS is miserable enough (not to mention the fact that my antidepressants exacerbate the condition) - why on earth would I want to make my life more miserable by never going out?

And anyway, I have a family so there's pretty much no way I can avoid going out - life doesn't stop because of my IBS!

mooma- see my later post. The conversation at a queue with ds1 goes something like this. I have to speak loudly to be heard over ds1 and I have to speak slowly or he won't understand. But the monologue is something along the lines of "waiting ds1 we are waiting. Ds1 needs to wait nicely. These people are first then ds1. Ds1 needs to wait. 3 waits ds1. waiting, waiting. I know you don't like the word but waiting. Hands down ds1, ds1 needs to wait. No biting we are waiting. Waiting lets do a count down. 100, 99, 98, 97, 96 waiting nicely please. No shouting and don't hit your head' Sometimes I bring a countdown clock in some form (if I know we will be waiting). I am always very calm when talking to ds1 as I have to be.

Honestly I cannot ask people to let me go in front as 100% of my attention has to be on ds1. If I stop to ask he would be out of my arms and trying to run to the front of the queue. I think the things I say to ds1 make it completely obvious.

People like babies - they're happy to help. People are often scared of people with learning disabilities. Or in ds1's case I'm sure think that he's 'big enough to know better'

well said curlymama

"Disabled people do sometimes take adavntage of their situation (not that I blame them) and they sometimes have an attitude that the world and his wife owes them a favour because they are disabled."

Really? Your evidence for this is??? Or is it just prejudice?

See my post above why a carer might not be able to just ask nicely. (If I was in a position where I could strike up a conversation with someone in front of me in the queue then tbh we wouldn't have a problem waiting). I presume people with some disabilities don't want to have to explain them to all and sundry.

I think we are all possibly missing one of the key issues here. When buildings are designed, they usually allocate equal space to male and female loos - even though women need more space, as ours is all cubicles while men have urinals. That's why there is often a queue outside the ladies and no queue outside the mens.

Maybe if building regs were changed so architects and property developers HAD to give more space to female than male, some of the parents of non-disabled kids would keep out of the disabled loos?

I can't imagine being in a queue ahead of you and your son, saintlydamemrsturnip, and not saying, "Would you like to go in ahead of me?" - unless my IBS was really playing up, and even then I'd explain why I wasn't offering.

(Obviously Dads need to take kids to the loo as well, but in reality women are still the primary carers so 9/10 it will be women who are using public loos with children.)

Oh there are lots of ways the design should be changed. Nappy changing facilities in the disabled loos often aren't suitable for older children/teens/adults either. I think things are designed without any thought at all.

There are certain rules aren't there about toilets in places like cafes. I suspect the designers looks at those and then just design the cheapest/simplest solution. I can understand why.

for me it is not about the queuing although dd1 is not very good with that due to her intellectual impairment and development delay - it is improving. For most people it is not about the queuing it is about having the space and the handrails and washbasins etc at an appropriate level.

We use the disabled toilets because of accessible facilities - that she can steady herself with the handrail whilst on the toilet. That I can change her pull ups/nappies and dispose of the soiled/wet ones appropriately. She is 8 - I am not going to take her to the baby change area.

She is walking and I would have been furious if someone like runaway wife had said something like that to me. She would have been given a blast from me. We have already had filthy looks from people in wheelchairs when dd1 and I have come from the disabled toilet BUT her needs are the same as theirs - somewhere to change and clean her in privacy and with dignity.

HOWEVER - a bonus for us here in Aus in our area - the toilets have stroller friendly toilets - larger cubicles in which you can wheel your pram or shopping trolley into and go to the toilet.

Perhaps instead of fighting over who should use the disabled loos - perhaps you ladies - those of you who think you can just nip in the toilet to use them for a minute - start up a campaign to have a stroller friendly toilet or two installed in your local shops.

We also have family rooms and toilets which contain an adult size one and a smaller child size one which dads or mums can use with small children.

I don't think the world owes my daughter anything and I would also not think it would be appropriate to tell a stranger that my child needs to use a disabled toilet as she is in pull ups/nappies - that is her business not for general broadcasting - how undignified.

Great post, eidsvold, and a fab suggestion.

I guess that shops do not like to allocate more space than is absolutely necessary to loos, which is why there are no stroller friendly loos.

That brings me back- the number of toilets ds1 would not go into because of hand dryers. He quite likes them now.

We need some Aussie designers over here eids!

oh that happened when ds1 was subjected to mainstream. He wouldn't use the toilets at all after the first week and the hand dryer. For some strange reason they wouldn't let him use the disabled toilet (no hand dryer) because that was a staff loo . He used to come home desperate and it didn't help the constipation and overflow he had going on then.

To be honest if I saw an 11 year old boy in the ladies toilets who was getting very upset whilst queueing and who wasn't able to verbalise why they were upset, then my automatic assumption would be that the boy had a disability and I would, therefore, ask the parent/carer if they wanted to go ahead of me.
I take both my lads into the ladies with me, Ds1 because although he can cope reasonably well then when issues arise I'm there to help him and Ds2 because he's still in nappies fulltime and he's too big for the babychanging tables now. They're 7 and 5 and both are on the autistic spectrum. I change Ds2 standing up in the cubicle, it's a bit of a squash but at the moment he's small enough for me to be able to get him changed that way. I am torn about letting DS1 use the disabled toilets, as on the one hand he's entitled to and on the other he has a tendency to lock himself in the toilets for up to 20 minutes, so not really a case of nipping in and out.