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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

To tell the travellers...

380 replies

Starbuck999 · 30/08/2010 11:17

By my parents house to please fuck off?

Story is, my parents and their neighbours all clubbed together to buy a lovely piece of land that their terrace of houses over looks. None of them are rich and it was a large buy for them all but they all keep is beautifully and it is a lovely view for them all to enjoy, it's only a small patch of land, not what one could consider to be a field even. i think they have (had) plans to make it a play area for all the local children, or a sports field or something similar.

4 weeks ago, overnight, a few caravans appeared. Of course the residents went to speak to them to say it was private land (which they already knew as there are huge "private" signs all round it and they actually smashed down a large section of the fencing to drive their caravans in.) But the travellers refused to budge. They were very matter of fact and reasonably polite about the fact that they would not be moving and they knew the residents couldnt do anything to make them move right away. Lovely.

Now, whilst I fully appreciate anyone's right to live how they want, surely it should not be at the expense of others. It must be wonderful to live such a free life, moving from place to place if that is what you choose, but how can you not expect to pay? Caravans sites cost say £25 a night, they should be paying to stay in one, or buy their own land and live there.

The field is now horrendous. More and more caravans have been moved in, I'd say there's no about 20. There are huge piles of broken up crates, broken buggies, televisions etc and massive piles of general hosehold rubbish and food waste in black bags that have been split open by foxes I presume all round the edge of the land. It's starting to look like a landfill site!

I don't have the full details but basically the residents have been told nothing can be done to get rid of them right away, it will take time through the courts. Then they will be moved on. That's all that will happen. Now If I parked my car somewhere illegal it would be clamped, towed and I'd have a hefty fine - why doesn't the same apply?

AIBU?

OP posts:

Gay40 · 30/08/2010 13:36

Kinders, if you suggest that people are taking the opportunity to frame travellers for petty crime...I think it's a lame defence.

KindersTristers · 30/08/2010 13:36

Valium - "You have to wonder what kind of conditioning goes on there!"

Or what kind of abuse by Police they have been subjected to...

expatinscotland · 30/08/2010 13:36

'It is like saying to you (if you required Council accomodation) 'we have no houses, so you'll have to live on a Traveller's site and move x times a year' - and if you say 'no way I'm not a Traveller, I need a house' you're told its you're own fault you're homeless because you should have taken the Traveller option. I think that would be unfair and I think its unfair to Travellers too.'

If they said to me, then I'd go there because that's what shelter is available until I get back on my feet. Unless I'm fully paying my own way, it's not for me to dictate the terms of provision.

And when you go to the council for accommodation, in probably 8 out of 10 councils here, you aren't getting a house. You're getting a room in a hostel or shite B&B and then maybe a wretched flat after a year or more.

But if you don't like that, then you have to lump it.

SugarMousePink · 30/08/2010 13:37

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

DinahRod · 30/08/2010 13:37

We have travellers on the edge of the village who have bought their own site and are part of the community. It works because it's small and they keep it very well maintained, always adding improvements. The children attend the local school.

In the next village in the next county there is one very large site and there has been a lot of trouble. The local school is now only attended by traveller children, all the locals have removed their own.

When my grandfather had travellers come on to his farm, ruining a crop field and had some of his herd stolen, he got out his muck-spreader.

KindersTristers · 30/08/2010 13:38

Gay40, not to frame them, to get away with it themselves. Thinking the police won't look any further than the Traveler's site IYSWIM.

parkj83 · 30/08/2010 13:39

This might sound like an obvious question, and I don't know whether it's been asked/answered/mentioned so far but...

If they're on private property without permission (i.e. trespassing) and have caused damage, why aren't the police involved?!

Gay40 · 30/08/2010 13:40

I still think it's complete shite, Kinders.

I was wondering that, Park.

Maisiethemorningsidecat · 30/08/2010 13:42

I've just been out on my lunch break, and passed the local site to be left by travellers. They appeared one evening, smashed through a hedge (right on a corner, on a busy A road) and the site gradually filled up. There was a multi-vehicle smash one evening, with one of them trying to turn into the site.

It's now covered in piles and piles of rubbish, which has now blown over the area. The police are up there now, inspecting the damage - and it is damage. Do the famers and landowners get compensation, I wonder?

Oh, and we're in Scotland, and the same thing happens up here ie, nothing. There is a site near Edinburgh which has been set aside for travellers - only problem is, there is a lot of fighting between families, so no-one uses it. My friend is a police officer - a lovely, kind, old school bobby, but he tears his hair out when they arrive.

Vallhala · 30/08/2010 13:42

Chaotica, when you do what I do, you can tell me that I'm speaking bollocks. Not until then.

There are no "official" statistics of course. What do you do? Do you pay the ransom and get your dog back or do you go to the Police when you receive the demand and never see your dog again? Get real!

I can give you examples, lots of them. THIS ONE for a start.

You won't see any mention of travellers or ransom there, I don't think, but let me quote someone I know and trust in rescue who worked on the case... "Oscar the Italian Spinone missing from Newnham, Cambridge has been returned to owners by gypsy fraternity for £200 !!!"

There is a HELL of a lot that goes on that is unspoken, or discussed on private parts of otherwise public forums and which we are involved in (or know someone personally who is) that you will never get to hear of.

A couple of weeks ago it was a lady in rescue who I know personally who went with an owner to hand over hundreds of pounds to a traveller who had stolen her Retriever pup.

KindersTristers · 30/08/2010 13:42

Rainbow, sounds like the police are not doing their job if the people you know are reporting they have actually seen their dogs.

They should definately check it out one way or the other.

Maybe they don't believe you friend, I don't know? (I'm not saying they are lying, just don't know why police wouldn't investigate). Maybe your friend should put a complaint in agfainst the police?

KindersTristers · 30/08/2010 13:43

definitely

KindersTristers · 30/08/2010 13:47

against

Chaotica · 30/08/2010 13:48

I have not said all Travellers are law-abiding. But I don't like hearsay accusations being thrown around when people could just get the police involved if the case is so clear cut.

Vallhala · 30/08/2010 13:49

Gay40, I have known of cruelty towards animals in the travelling community but I hear of it in all communities. In my personal experience I haven't experienced a noticable amount in any one in this country although I might be inclined to question numbers when I was dealing with the rescue of Irish pound dogs.

Others in rescue might well have different experiences to me though.

LarkinSky · 30/08/2010 13:49

It seems to be that if a dialogue, on a local or national level, could be established with travelers, that would be a step in the right direction?

I know a traveller MP isn't going to be voted in anytime soon, but do they have a spokesperson in the UK?
A forum where their rights and responsibilities can be debated...

Until that happens, they're just too 'them', too 'other', and these deep gulfs of suspicion between us and them will only deepen.

I do support people's right to live their own life, but there has to be a social contract too. The problem is, travelers don't want to be a part of society. Could our government offer them an incentive to change their minds, without changing their lifestyle?

Chaotica · 30/08/2010 13:50

Thanks, Kinders - again you're a voice of sanity.

expatinscotland · 30/08/2010 13:50

Maise, I know the site you're talking about!

It usually costs the council around £50,000/annum to clean up.

ValiumSingleton · 30/08/2010 13:51

It's so simplistic to say that anybody who acknowledges their way of life is prejudiced. Dogs are what the travellers do/know! It's how they make a living ... while we settled fools work in call centres and up sell insurance to the elderly (for example).

Respecting the settled community, our laws, our lawns (!) is not something that is given much thought in the travelling community. Acknowledging that reality doesn't make one prejudiced. We identify with the group we're born into.

KindersTristers · 30/08/2010 13:51

Larkin, maybe more proper sites?

expatinscotland · 30/08/2010 13:51

Yes, it's insane to expect people to obey the law and pay their own way in society and not expect the council to subsidise their choices in life for free.

Vallhala · 30/08/2010 13:52

If you want an abused, bred six monthly, fought, used as bait for fighting dogs, used to kill other animals or dead dog then you go to the police.

Let me say it again - mine are NOT "hearsay accusations". They come from experience.

KindersTristers · 30/08/2010 13:52

Chaotica

TwoIfBySea · 30/08/2010 13:52

YANBU and I feel sorry for your parents.

This animosity towards travellers would not exist if they left the areas in the same state as when they arrived. Unfortunately, having seen at first hand many times over the absolute tip they leave behind then they really do bring the prejudice down on their own heads.

And surely you cannot lead a life without boundaries while at the same time expecting the state to provide everything for you.

There is a travellers site near where I stay, kind of like a caravan camp with facilities and a play area better than the local kids get. The travellers choose not to go there. Instead the council had to block the entrance to the park after they drove across the grass and parked in the area where kids played, people walked and jogged and walked their dogs. The mess they left was horrific and no one went near the place for months.

Locals, who were denied their space were then expected to foot the clear up bill.

LarkinSky · 30/08/2010 13:53

Yes to more official council-run (or privately run) sites, but with strings attached.

Shouldn't travellers sign up to conditions and responsibilities in return?

As the rest of us living in society do?

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