To tell the travellers...

[Starbuck999]

By my parents house to please fuck off?

Story is, my parents and their neighbours all clubbed together to buy a lovely piece of land that their terrace of houses over looks. None of them are rich and it was a large buy for them all but they all keep is beautifully and it is a lovely view for them all to enjoy, it's only a small patch of land, not what one could consider to be a field even. i think they have (had) plans to make it a play area for all the local children, or a sports field or something similar.

4 weeks ago, overnight, a few caravans appeared. Of course the residents went to speak to them to say it was private land (which they already knew as there are huge "private" signs all round it and they actually smashed down a large section of the fencing to drive their caravans in.) But the travellers refused to budge. They were very matter of fact and reasonably polite about the fact that they would not be moving and they knew the residents couldnt do anything to make them move right away. Lovely.

Now, whilst I fully appreciate anyone's right to live how they want, surely it should not be at the expense of others. It must be wonderful to live such a free life, moving from place to place if that is what you choose, but how can you not expect to pay? Caravans sites cost say £25 a night, they should be paying to stay in one, or buy their own land and live there.

The field is now horrendous. More and more caravans have been moved in, I'd say there's no about 20. There are huge piles of broken up crates, broken buggies, televisions etc and massive piles of general hosehold rubbish and food waste in black bags that have been split open by foxes I presume all round the edge of the land. It's starting to look like a landfill site!

I don't have the full details but basically the residents have been told nothing can be done to get rid of them right away, it will take time through the courts. Then they will be moved on. That's all that will happen. Now If I parked my car somewhere illegal it would be clamped, towed and I'd have a hefty fine - why doesn't the same apply?

AIBU?

I agree with rainbow. It's not PC, but there you go.

It's not two months since a traveller tried to break into my house. There was a thread that turned nasty on an Irish forum a few weeks ago because somebody's dog was stolen by the travellers and she was pasted for saying that.

But if it is private land owned by someone, it might as well be their house. It is theirs, not public or empty land.

Sorry -I'll try again, sent that without finishing...

Starbuck I was responding to expats asertyion that it was somneone's house.

"If someone decides to camp out in your house, leave a mess in their wake and trash your place you shouldn't be angry with them, but the situation." Hence I replied:
"Expat, they are not in the OP's or anyone else's house, but on an empty area of land nearby

I am well aware that it is private land paid for by the residents, which is why I said "If that happened to me, I'd be unhappy too" and "I do sympathise with the OP." in my first post.

The stealing dogs thing deffo goes on.

i know someone whose working dogs were stolen along with their car. The car was spotted going into a permanent travellers site by CCTV. The police weren't allowed to go into the site without the 'Traveller liason officer".

by the time they turned up, both dogs and car both disappeared.

However, they got one of their dogs back. He was elderly and luckily microchipped and he was found starving week later having been abandoned.

what Rainbow said.

I'm sure that there are disabled people, black people, people with ginger hair and lizard owners on the net too.

And if I had knowledge that a disproportionate number of any of these were stealing loved family pets I'd be putting that on the net too.

No, you certainly won't persuade me that it is ok for these travellers to be breaking the law.

They are choosing to roam around the country living in a caravan, nobody can dispute that fact. There is NOTHING stopping them accessing the homesless persons centre run by the local council and being house (albeit probably temporarily) in a b&b or hostel then eventually being giving a flat or council house. All with heating, lighting and proper sanitation. There is an option for people who want the help, the council shouldnt have to provide many options for people who are desperate and homeless, there is on in place already. So if travellers need help and don't want to live with no facilities then they can take that help as clearly their way of life isn't working. If they want to live as travellers then they need to find a way of doing so and a means of funding it THEMSELVES!

But what benefits would they claim? How could they claim JSA if they are continuously moving around?

It's all a big fuck up really. We are allowing people to be above the law. The authorities need to go in there tonight, cut off their water, and tow away the caravans. Then they can pay to retrieve them and move somewhere else.

I agree it is their children that are suffering, how can moving from place to place and living with no running water and amongst all that waste be a good life for the poor kids living opposite my parents?

Kinders, you haven't answered the point about why can't the travellers clean up after themselves ?

:( Vulgar.

I'd have... no, you don't want to know, but trust me I wouldn't have needed a fecking liaison officer with me.

I don't blame them, but they are conditioned over generations to have no respect for settled people. They have their own honours and codes I guess, and probably treat each other very well.

Why did they need a liason officer?

Just as an aside, Vallhala, the travellers that appear here every so often have a reputation for mistreating animals - I've not seen this myself other than the horses looking a bit dirty - but other people have complained about it. Just wondered if it was a known problem or what? Thanks.

Rainbow - it will also give "them", or maybe "us" the chance to read some of the pig-ignorant generalisations which go on about travellers and gypsies which would be absolutely out of the question if the group being talked about were black or Irish, or Jewish (and so on).

Most travellers and Gypsies do not condone law breaking (so would say OP YANBU), and most make their own livings without benefits.

But the culture of those few who do break the law has been brought about by years (centuries) of hostility and so they think it's justified. (I happen to think they're wrong, as do most gypsies I know.)

Standing back, I'm sure they try. My point would be (and I have mentioned this) that they don't have Council refuse/rubbish collections like the rest of us, so I'm sure its not easy.

Particularly if you've no proper washing facilities too.

Valhalla - give the the official statistics, not complete hearsay bollocks. It used to be presumed that Gypsies stole children too. Please.

I found a four year old boy on St Patrick's day, sobbing his heart out in a suit I kid you not. I told him I'd find a gaurd, thinking that would comfort him, but he totally panicked at that. It is hard to imagine what could have been said to a four year old to make him fear the gardai so much, but I mght as well have told him I was handing him over to the devil. 2 gardai came up to us anyway and said that they'd look after him, but the poor little kid was hysterical at being 'taken by the gards' even though they were being kind ot him. You have to wonder what kind of conditioning goes on there!

But the people the op is refering to and the dog stealers that Valhalla and I refer to are breaking the law. We're not referring to all travellers and gypsies just the ones that go on to other peoples property, steal and make a huge mess. It is completely different to talking about a race of people all doing the same thing.

Ok, Chaotica - well almost everyone posting here has had experience of travellers trespassing and laving rubbish, no I'm indluded int hat figure too. So if there are no "official sites" available, travellers find it almost impossible to buy land to live on where are they all living if most are not breaking the law by trespassing on other people's land???

Also, do they pay tax if they are earning their own living? I thought the ideal of a travellers lifestle was to live a free life "outside the system" as it were? Or are they eanring cah in hand and not paying tax and N.i???

Why do most Travellers seem to leave the land they've lived on for a few weeks/months such a mess?

Does anyone know? I an impression that Travellers are very house caravan-proud.

If the land they lodged on was kept and left immaculate, if they weren't involved in dodgy dealings, and if they actually communicated with the permanent community, rather than looking unapproachable and threatening, wouldn't public opinion be more of the 'live and let live' strain?

They do steal dogs though. It's one of the ways they make a living. Sure settled people steal fgs, just not dogs. Travellers steal dogs, settled thugs steal dvds etc.

I agree, Gay40.

'Do the rest of you posters think that no gypsies and travellers use the internet?'

Why on Earth presume people think that because they don't agree with stopping wherever you please on someone else's property and expecting to stay for free and trash the place out as well?

Live how ever you please, don't expect others to subsidise it.

I mean, squat on private lands, trash it and then blame the government for not leaving stretches of land bare for people to do it on when entire families are crammed into B&B rooms for lack of other shelter?

C'mon.

Culturally, travellers are different from diddicoy / country people (house dwellers) both socially and often ethnically.

My family has traveller connections I believe, but we are going back about 5 generations.

I farking love travellers. I do own land, and yes I would be mightily pissed of if anyone decided to park up on it and start living there without my consent and rent free, don't get me wrong.

It is a part of many travellers culture to make money in many different ways, around here they do drive tarmacing, garden work, scrap business - great if you have a garden cluttered up with shite stuff like I have.

But also, traditionally dogs and horses are a big part of traveller culture and acquisition of such may not always be legal.

Some travellers will rob you blind and smile while they are doing it, but it is just their way, like the gangsters of the old east end, funny how we can think the Kray twins are wonderful old chaps and travellers are somehow a different kettle of fish?!

Of course some are ruthless, violent, selfish and plain old nasty, but that goes for anyone. Also parents may fear their children being bullied if they go to a 'normal' school.

We have a very traditional Romany community around where we live, some of the families are involved in running local fayre and village fetes, they are well liked, well respected and have the most gorgeous painted caravans and huuuge shire horses. Locals welcome them and vice versa. We also have a slightly larger group who are parked illegally on a piece of land owned by a homeowner behind some terraced houses - I wonder if we are talking about the same place?

So what my epic post was meant to say was it takes all sorts and there's nowt so queer as folk. Or something.

Larkin, I believe their caravans are beautiful inside, well, to their taste, with all mod-cons.

That may be true of you, Rainbow, but that's not the way a lot of the posts on here can be read. The problem for travellers is that nearly everyone assumes that all travellers are the same.

There are actually studies done that say crime goes down when there is a traveller/gypsy camp in the area but reading this thread you'd never believe it.

"i know someone whose working dogs were stolen along with their car. The car was spotted going into a permanent travellers site by CCTV. The police weren't allowed to go into the site without the 'Traveller liason officer".

by the time they turned up, both dogs and car both disappeared.

However, they got one of their dogs back. He was elderly and luckily microchipped and he was found starving week later having been abandoned."

No dogs found on site...no car found on site...one dog found elsewhere. Yeah, must be those Travellers...

How reliable is the CCTV bit of the story? And what does it mean anyway? Maybe someone drove through a Travelers site knowing they's get away with it as the finger of suspicion would fall on the Travellers.

Its as well you're not judge and jury Vulgar, we'd all be shot at dawn!

Kinders - I know dog owners in my area who have seen their own dogs on the travellers sites but police have said they cant go on the site. Should I tell them they are lying? They've tried to get their dogs back themselves but have been threatened and are too scared to go on the site.