To think my dd is NOT A LIKEABLE PERSON??

[proudnsad]

She's six. She's a feisty, intelligent, wild-haired tom boy with a laugh like Barbara Windsor.
But she is so horrible! I don't mean tantrumy and difficult (though she is those things too). She is rude, anti-social, unfriendly, has no empathy and is soooo selfish.
Her older bro is a sweet-natured, calm, kind kid. It upsets him how unkind and ungrateful she is to him.
She routinely wakes us all up in the morning, sometimes during the night, with huge
meltdowns along the lines of 'I'VE GOT A BOGEY UP MY NOSE' or 'I'VE SPILT MY WATER' or 'DB'S BREATHING'.
She refuses to do anything she's told. She rarely talks to other dc who come to chat, in fact she fixes them with this chilling look that would scare Beelzebub.
I could go on forever. As I started writing this I realised I didn't know where to start or stop.
I tried talking to her this morning after she woke us up in a massive strop because she couldn't get her dressing gown down. Cuddled her (that's one good thing,she loves affection and is very cuddly funnily enough) asked her about all the anger. But she's six, how the hell does she know how to explain it?
I try to praise and encourage and I tell her about much I love her.
But she's just not one of life's natural nice people and I don't want that to affect her experiences as she gets older iuswim?
Oh my god she's doing it again, gotta go!!!!

Dit - you've got the wrong end of the stick re 'being grateful to her brother!

Of course I don't think children should be grateful to their siblings in some general, fundamental way. That would be bonkers.

What I meant is, he does loads of things for her (y'know, helping her on swings, getting her breakfast when he gets his, helping her with reading, sharing his pocket money) and it's not reciprocated. She won't share with him etc. It's HIS beef not mind about this. It upsets him that she is not grateful for and doesn't reciprocate his kindness.

I think you are absolutely right that I need to manage my expectations of a six year old, avoid labelling her and not see her as my adversary.

I'm going to sound defensive here, but despite all this we are very bonded and have a close and loving relationship.

You have really touched a nerve about my relationship with my own mother...

Do you get chance to spend one to one time with her - away from everyone else?

That could help a lot.

I used to find with my DD that she'd work up to a pitch of naughtiness/unpleasantness, drive me totally loopy, then be like an angel for a few days, before it'd start again.

What I used to do (still do!) is re-enact what happened when she is calm, with us swapping roles. Also, re-enact as ourselves, but how we could have played it! eg What would have happened if she had tidied her room when asked.

(My DD was/is exactly the same re punishments - would make out she didn't care about them, so I never felt I'd won and she'd learnt her lesson .)

I used to worry about my DD not having friends - but she was never bothered, and flitted from group to group. She'd rather play on her own than fit in with people to play a game she didn't want to. Is your DD worried? (My DD now has lots of friends, but still isn't that bothered!)

I didn't read everything - sorry, but I just wanted to say that it sounds as though she has some lovely qualities. Why don't you just trust in the fact that the rest of the world will see her nice qualities (just as you do) and will not focus no her bad ones? People do that everyday with all kinds of people.

And praise the hell out of her when she does something 'nice' which goes against her normal, more difficult character.

haven't read the whole thread, but proudnsad, you could be describing me. One thing that has helped in the intervening 28 years is learning impulse control. You could start now well enough with telling her to slow down her reactions because then things will be easier for her....

You can't always like your children, they can be very annoying, distracting and hard work.

I bet you have some funny times too!

She will probably grow up to be a very strong character, maybe a very successful boss!

God everyone thanks so much, this has been unbelievably helpful and enlightening for me.

Cret - no I don't think she is worried friend-wise. But she did struggle in reception with 'fitting in' - partly because she can't bear girl's play and the boys didn't accept her straight away.

Psammead - what a great thing to say.

Animation - ummm, sort of. Early mornings, if she's not bashing the shit of me, we chat and read together. Not a big swathe of quality time though. That might be a good idea.

Dit - God. My mum. Weelll. Hmmm. She had mental health issues and was in and out of psych units from when I was age 5 onwards. I never have or never will blame her for not being there a lot ie my heart bleeds for the shit she went through. I lived with dad and stepmum (shudder). Later in life, Mum was very difficult, demanding, guilt tripping. She's so different from me, we just have nothing in common. But over years of me managing her and keeping her at arm's length wwhile nurturing what there is to nurture, wwe have a 'good' relationship. I see a lot of her, am tolerant of our differences now and we do have some lovely times together particularly as she is a wonderful grandmother. She doesn't know that I don't love her.
When I had a girl I was beyond euphoric. Read into that what you will! Though I can say hand on heart I never had an idea of what I 'wanted' (yuck) in a daughter and still don't - HONESTLY. But I also have to say hand on heart that if I had a crystal ball and saw we didn't have a close relationship when she's an adult I would be broken, devastated.

Could she possibly have some elements of ADHD? My ADHD dd2 (8) is an absolute whirlwind of activity and sometimes the social stuff just gets too difficult when she's going at 120 miles an hour. My interaction with her was becoming very negative until we had the diagnosis - I was always on her case about the stuff she wasn't doing, I thought deliberately. As it turns out, half the time stuff doesn't even register, and if it does, she forgets it before she has to do it!

Like your dd, dd2 is a gorgeous, cuddly girl and I have to really make an effort to see past the behaviour, which to a certain extent is beyond her control at the moment, to the little girl that needs even more demonstrations of our love and affection than her siblings.
It may be worth chatting to your GP or the SENCo at school. Good luck.

Dit - I think you are overstating and trying to fit complex shapes into neat little boxes.

I don't 'reject' any part of my dd and saying I'm 'reacting to her as if she's my mother' is very clunky.

I don't 'see' dd as spiteful, lazy and ungrateful. But sometimes her actions are borne out of these traits.

I have every right to say I don't love my mother. Yes it's powerful but it's the bottom line.

I think I have done incredibly well to have maintained a relationship with my mum - one that gives HER so much pleasure - given the pain she's caused me (I'm not talking the mental health issues when I was a child but behaviours later on that nearly led me to cut off all contact. I'm not going into them as even though I'm anonymous, it feels disloyal and wrong.)

Dit - that sounded angry, I'm not. I appreciate the time you've taken to talk to me, and I appreciate the way you've challenged me and made me think about difficult things.

And one more thing(!): Although I think it's useful to touch base with your deepest, darkest places from time to time esp if they are possibly affecting your current situations, there is the danger of over analysing.

I don't feel the difficulties we have are down to my relationship with my mum, I think on the whole she's just who she is and I need to rethink some of my coping mechanisms.

It's been a relief to hear from so many 'me toos!' on this thread and have it confirmed that with love and patience and understanding and a whole lot of disclipine and firm boundaries and a sprinkling of luck these feisty dc do turn out alright.

I'LL SHUT THE FUCK UP NOW!!!! BORING MYSELF

I was with a girl aged 6 who came out with "If you want to be my friend you have to earn it!"....She is now a friendless teenager!

proudnsad - I echo IrritatedOfTunbridgeWells - impulse control is going to be her friend.

She sounds bright enough that you could appeal to her intelligence - saying that before responding to anything, she should stop, think, and work out how to address each situation most effectively to get what she needs. And that screaming won't do it, usually.

Also, thinking about how she sounds to other people - this should work by age 6 - she should understand the concept (indeed desirability) of embarrassment at sounding like a silly tantrumming baby. Introducing empathy for her brother could come in here too.

Later on introduce the concept of reading what other people are really saying and responding sensitively.

I'm another of these adults who looks back on childhood and cringes at a long series of screaming matches, slammed doors etc.

Thanks Dittany x

proudnad I think think you have one of the dc's who react to ANYTHING as thats her personality. I know quite a few.

BUT I think she does respect you as she went to bed!! Its the power of feeling she won by not tidying the room and then doing it only if she gets what she wants BUT the point is she did it as she respects you and you are obviously a good and consistant mum.

BUT remember your a mum NOT superwomn and therefore you are bound to get run down by the continous tantrums after a while.

(I know I can feel like this after an afternoon with friend and her dd2 - and I can walk away!)

Massive and mumbar, both brill posts. Massive, totally do and will try that approach. So glad I posted. I now don't think it's no coincidence she's been so calm and well behaved today. I think I am looking at her anew and having confidence in my ways of dealing with her.

She is only six children are learning all the time my daughter is not much like she was when she was 6 now she is a teenager I liked her at 6 but she is nothing like she was at 6 now shes grown up Dont worry its the parents job though to help your child learn whats okay and whats not You will prob wish she was6 again in the future make some allowance for her age 6 is very young

Proudnsad.

I find it interesting is that your daughter is a similar age to what you were when your mother was in and out of psychy units. I don't know if there's a link but sometimes we feel things MUCH stronger when our children reach the same age as we were when we were underdoing some trauma. It must have been a very hard, confusing and lonely time for you at that age.

I'm another person who recognises themselves in your description. I was definitely a difficult child - and over-sensitive in that confusing over-passionate, keyed-up way (rather than being more obviously fragile).

Also, I have always known that my mother loves me; but I've thought since primary school that she doesn't like me very much (I am one of 5 so many opportunities for comparison!). I thought the poster who describes being straightforward with her (now grown-up) daughter about this was very impressive - with my mother it's always been unspoken, passive-aggressive stuff, much harder to deal with long-term and has definitely had a big (negative) impact on my close relationships more generally. I think in my mother's case she is not very honest with herself about it which makes it impossible to be honest with us - obviously you're ahead on that one!

One thing that I think you could maybe do is to really actively seek out and encourage friendships between your daughter and adults who do really like and "get" her without effort. Everyone needs to enjoy that feeling of being naturally, basically liked by someone, and she'll know if you don't feel it, or not reliably. If she does have a personality that some people find difficult, I think this is particularly important. All the stuff about asking her to think about how she comes across is important too, but can be a bit crippling if overplayed - i.e. if you grow up thinking that you are only liked/socially acceptable when you are working really hard and modifying all your responses. I am actually socially pretty competent and outgoing, but I still expect to be disliked, especially by women.

Finally, I also think the poster who said that these kinds of children are often the most un-worrying adolescents is right. I had an objectively v. tough adolescence - socially very isolated, educational problems and chronic serious ill-health - but I had such a strong sense of myself that I rode through it pretty successfully. Easier would have been nicer, but a quite "selfish" level of focus and drive can be quite advantageous when things are difficult.

I just came across this old thread by accident and found it really interesting. I was wondering how things are now op (if you still ever post on mn that is)

Maybe she could be slightly aspergers? Look up the symtoms on the national autistic society web site. There are different degrees - complex to very mild and high functioning. The lack of empathy, irritated by things touching her, odd eye contact, not being considerate make me wonder.

Have speed read the thread. OP, you have my sympathy.

DD1 (10) is quite similar in several ways. I've googled aspergers several times, but am pretty sure it is not that. Though there are a few things that resonate. Obsessive behavior re favorite books or favorite computer sites/games, lack of empathy, very poor eye contact, extreme shyness in new situations and not knowing how to reach out socially to new people. But once she makes a friend she is fine socially. She fits in well with her class during lessons, though is generally only interested in a few of her classmates. My own diagnosis is that she is just quirky and very self-absorbed.

She can be lovely, and she can be a right pain. Absolutely zero empathy for anybody other than her best friends. No interest in playing with anybody other than her best friends or DD2. She plays great with DD2 for hours on end (only 22 months between them), but can be a right cow to DD2.

She has a super imagination, all her teachers think she is great. But it is her way or the high way when she is at home (but not at school). First (second, third & fourth) response to a request from me is always NO. Have to constantly bribe, manipulate or threaten to get her to do anything. And she would win a prize for being negative. If something isn't perfect she has to make a comment/complaint about it. She has a sense of entitlement that you wouldn't believe.

I do love her dearly. And am trying my best not to react all the time, instead am trying to just call her on being a drama queen and ignoring the annoying behavior as much as I can. And try use humor whenever I can. I'm hoping she'll grow out of it. For a while, I felt I was constantly having a go off her, trying to get past all the refusals. Not reacting or distracting her with humor is getting a much better response from her. And I'm still bribing...

But I often feel like a right mean cow when I get annoyed/fed-up with her. It is just her way. I'm sure that will of iron will come in handy when she is older.