To think my dd is NOT A LIKEABLE PERSON??

[proudnsad]

She's six. She's a feisty, intelligent, wild-haired tom boy with a laugh like Barbara Windsor.
But she is so horrible! I don't mean tantrumy and difficult (though she is those things too). She is rude, anti-social, unfriendly, has no empathy and is soooo selfish.
Her older bro is a sweet-natured, calm, kind kid. It upsets him how unkind and ungrateful she is to him.
She routinely wakes us all up in the morning, sometimes during the night, with huge
meltdowns along the lines of 'I'VE GOT A BOGEY UP MY NOSE' or 'I'VE SPILT MY WATER' or 'DB'S BREATHING'.
She refuses to do anything she's told. She rarely talks to other dc who come to chat, in fact she fixes them with this chilling look that would scare Beelzebub.
I could go on forever. As I started writing this I realised I didn't know where to start or stop.
I tried talking to her this morning after she woke us up in a massive strop because she couldn't get her dressing gown down. Cuddled her (that's one good thing,she loves affection and is very cuddly funnily enough) asked her about all the anger. But she's six, how the hell does she know how to explain it?
I try to praise and encourage and I tell her about much I love her.
But she's just not one of life's natural nice people and I don't want that to affect her experiences as she gets older iuswim?
Oh my god she's doing it again, gotta go!!!!

Try not to indulge her. She needs to be told off for being selfish, if appropriate.

Hard work and likely to get harder if you do things right. I was a little sh1t for a couple fo years until my parents got a lot more strict.

The thing is, if it's not ironed out now, she'll only get worse.

She is a likable person, of course she is...she just needs to be shown who's boss...not her!!!

FWIW (not that I know anything) I think it's a matter of clashing personality. You need to figure out not only why she's "like that" but also why you are wound up by her (though it's probably easy to figure out why one is wound up by being woken up unnecessarily at the crack of dawn ). I find myself being wound up by certain things DSs do, not only because they are "naughty" things but because I project more things to an action than there is to it. That's because they are who they are and I am who I am. (Is that deep?) Once you understand that you can figure out a strategy to cope. It's a war out there. That's what that book I linked to tries to say...

Awwww, you are all fab, ta.

She is definitely not on the autistic scale.

Ha ha to her becoming a mad scientist! She's certainly got the hair for it.

ZZ - yes she's always been like this. She's actually a little better these days. It's that old nature vs nurture thing.

Fellatio - She found it harder to make friends than ds. But she does have a little group of all-male pals that she found after a few tricky months in reception. Actually children gravitate towards her because she's fun and sporty and beautiful (biased moi?!) and often want to be her friend but they often get knocked back by her. She's in her element playing football in the park or similar where social interacting is so simple.

Chandon - great post. I try to do this (explaining why anger is fine but tantrums and rudeness aren't). I often say 'Ok now you can't have XYZ because you shouted and were rude, how did that work out for you? I will help/get you what you want if you behave calmly and politely' and she glares at me like I am the wicked witch of the west.

My DP has described himself as a horror when he was about 6yo. Apparently he had a temper, would smash things up, ruin family events and generally make himself unpopular.

However, I know him as very compassionate, thoughtful and senitive. Maybe it was something he grew out of. I think he would say learning martial arts as a child (which he still does) helped channel his energy.

FWIW, OP, you sound like a loving and thoughtful mum and teaching by example is the best way with LOs. :)

Barmy - liking your tough talk, mate. Too true.

OK, but I wonder how you know she isn't. From your description she sounds pretty classic.

She sounds great- it's cool to be a tomboy in this pink and glittery world. Not everyone is nice and easygoing- though fortunately some are! I think my dd will be similar to yours- she's a tiny baby but already has a force of will and a personality so strong that we are . Her big brother was all sunny charm as a baby and essentially still is. I feel very differently towards them, but love them both. DD causes reaction. No advice, just be glad of all the good in her.

Coldcomfort, yes I get what you mean, but she's not honestly.

Msyikes, I am glad of all the good in her (what a lovely thang to say) and I am kind of in awe of her kick ass attitude. I just a) can't deal with her a lot of the time and b) don't want her to alienate herself etc.

She sounds interesting! It's good for girls to have a bit of spunk about them.

My friends DD was like that - she even hit a teacher.
But now she is old enough to play sport - different child!
She does basketball, netball, tennis, swimming and athletics.
She clearly needed a place for her excess energy.

My eldest (now 18) was very like this... from birth. God it was a shock! She was demanding, uber strong willed, feisty, knew EXACTLY what she wanted . Popular and bright, but very hard to live with. I always loved her but sometimes found it VERY hard to like her, and her younger brother and sisters were sooooo much easier, more friendly and placid and well just nicer to live with.

Fast forward to 18... still feisty, very very bright, popular still stroppy..but has developed empathy and enviable social skills and has become an amazing woman. Off to Uni to be a doctor shortly and I have NO doubt that her strong personality is what is going to take her far in life. Looking back I think we clashed a lot, and it became far easier when she could be more independent from me.. I dreaded her teens but actually she has been the best of the lot because her strong sense of self has made her a secure individual who never felt the need to bow to peer pressure... the others have worried me far more!

Hang in there.. your daughter will become an amazing woman one day...

Kidsncat, thanks.

Yes I can see her turning out like your 18 year old (so pleased for you, you obviously handled it all well). Tho I can also see her in prison!

And you're right about the 'shock'. I think we were in shock for many years, we were just not expecting such a force of nature to burst forth from our loins!!!!!

Sometimes (and this is SO unlike me) I wonder if it's because I've always worked FT. On the whole, totally comfortable with our choices. Dh is stay at home dad, we've never had nannies or any help, I've always taken them to school, never missed a school play, stay home if they're sick, get home by 6pm (usually) and, well, I earn a good wage so it's afforded us a nice family life. But occasionally (like this morning) I wonder if she is subconsciously angry with me for not being at home with her.

TBH I was a bit like that as a child, OP.

Until I developed the necessary social skills and awareness that other people were a) affected and b) judging me, I was just wild.

That kind of wildness seems to temper itself. I'm still a very strong personality but have learned to compromise, be diplomatic, put other people first and, ultimately, be caring and supportive towards me mother too.

It's part of growing up. And TBH a lot of my friends were difficult kids (we hang around in packs!) All of them are well-adjusted, great fun and have good senses of humour. They're also strong personalities who, I think, needed to grow up so that they could be independent, find an outlet, and thus be more at peace with the world and frankly, be able to live in it without being destructive.

PMS at the 'in prison' comment! That's always the fine line with these bright but fiery personalities, isn't it? They can go one way ....or the other. Just need to keep a bit of a rein on her!

Is she being bullied? Insecure at school? Sounds a little like she's overcompensating for something?

Good luck with her!!

She sounds a bit like my DS.
It's a relief that I'm not the only parent who doesn't like their child sometimes.

I agree with the other posters who have said that difficult traits in children are often valuable in adults.

"nice boys come last" is the phrase that springs to mind!

proudnsad, I think that feisty is in the genes, not because you always worked FT! I know a few bright feisty DDs whose parents (mums especially) have real power struggles with them, and some work part-time, some are SAHMs. (And actually most of the ones I know have older brothers and tend to get on better with boys.)

My DD really improved from 8, when she could have more independence. She just hated being told what to do. Still needs a tight rein, though. I was always a yes-girl, and secretly admire the stroppy trait. While some feisty children do go off the rails, if they are channelled in the right direction, they are just as likely to become doctors like kidsncatsnwine's DD (I hope!).

Have you read Raising Your Spirited Child? Bit American, but I found it v helpful.

My dd is MUCH, MUCH more likeable than my ds. She is empathetic, sweet and kind. He is obsterperous, anti-social and can be spiteful. However, I have absolutely NO concerns about peer pressure in his teen years; he knows his own mind far too well to be messed about by anyone at all! DD however can be very easily led, and her primary motivating desire is that everyone should like her. That can be a very hard way to be.

I love my children to the ends of the earth, both of them. I like different aspects of their personalities, and they know I adore them both. However, there are no two ways about it, dd has a much sunnier, more pleasant personality. But to be brutally honest, I have a more friendly, likeable personality than my dh, who is an absolutely great, great bloke, but can be socially muted, moody, and patronising, just as ds is going to be! Don't get me wrong, I DEFINITELY have my faults too, but they tend to be internalised rather than directed at others!

Sorry to press the issue but how do you know shes not on the spectrum?

Cretaceous - cheers, yes I tend to think those things in my tired or insecure or despairing moments. Overall I think it's in the genes and wouldn't matter if I worked or not.

LC200 - ditto to everything you say. I will try that book and the others suggested.

Amber - no probs. Ummm, despite what I said about no empathy etc, it's clearly laziness/selfishness/spitefulness, it' not an inability to relate. She's not inside herself. Sorry if that's clumsy. My nephew is mildly autistic and he's socially detached in a very different way. Does that make sense?

Yes it makes sense!

As im sure you know there are many variants on the spectrum, some children with asds are not so much socially detached as socially inappropriate.....so that laziness/selfishness and spitefulness can be because they don't actually get that that sort of behavior is wrong. iyswim ?

its still clearly selfish spiteful etc but they don't understand why that is socially unacceptable and seem to not care that it is eg they will not back down from that stance even if its pointed out as being unacceptable.

My DS has Aspergers, a lot of what you said in your OP reminded me of some of his behaviors...and Nyanbu i understand...really i do :)

Sounds like a little girl in DS2s class, turns out she had some sort of SN.

Ok Amber I hear ya, thanks for that info. I'm sure you understand only too well!

I'm leaving work soon, wonder what horrors await me! Nah, after all the posts today I can't wait to go home and cuddle her to smithereens. Then thrash her and send her to bed without any tea .

She sounds just like my dd1, I worry a lot about others not liking her. We have a new nanny (working mother guilt too) who keeps going on about how trying she is, though she is very patient.

My dd1 has hypermobility (very loose joints) and coordination problems. I have to remember that she experiences the world in a much much full-on and frightening way than the rest of us, that that her body is all wobbly with no core to centre her. No wonder she freaks out a lot and behaves nastily sometimes.

If your dd is sporty this clearly isn't the case but there might be some underlying something. Having said that agree with others she will probably go far in life. Dd1 is just like my dh and he is very successful indeed, while not always the easiest to live with.

does she enjoy reading stories at all? I think fiction is great for developing empathy as you have to put yourself in someone else's shoes.

:) Have a good evening Proudnsad