To get annoyed with the general intolerance towards children?

[BobMarley]

Now I'm all for children being tought how to behave especially in public, but I recently had my 5-year old snapped at by an old lady because she ran passed her. On the promenade by the beach. Opposite the children's zone. The old lady was sitting outside her beach hut and my daughter ran passed.

Another time someone on Facebook complained about a child incessantly talking on a train. She thought it was unacceptable in public and the parent should have kept the child quiet because it was annoying everyone. Needless to say this was someone who did not have children. When I commented that she might think differently when she has children of her own I got flamed.

AIBU to think people are just intolerant and children aren't allowed to be children and are expected to be mini-adults?

GrowlingLucifer, has a point about restaurants as I find the same too. It is not so much the people running them but the people eating there that are the problem. Since when could you not take children out for a meal for heavens sake.

Did anyone see the news article about the man with severe autism being asked to leave Strood swimming baths because he was 'making too much nopise'? If we have no tolerance for children how on earth are adults with severe learning and congnitive disabilities able to intigrate into society successfully and without prejudice?

[[http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-sussex-10898351 though they have since apologised] but for giods sake, how on earth can people complain about this in the first place? What right have they got to make a judgement on such a vulnerable young adult

opps

YANBU at being annoyed by these incidents, but I have to say that I live in London and find everything pretty child-friendly!

London underground aside (I have to carry the prams up the stairs) I have had literally no problems with attitudes on public transport, restaurants, out and about.... I generally find people helpful, understanding and pretty tolerant!

A man in Asda had a go at me once because DS was chewing a bit of card sitting in the trolley (he was tired and it kept him quiet, ok?!) and once I went to a restaurant with no highchairs - but I don't let the odd thoughtlessness blight my opinion of all the lovely people out there!

Ah curryfreak, I think I explained myself. I think that it would be nice if people, in general, had respect and tolerance for other people (babies being people). I recognise they don't always but I wish they had. You don't think anyone should have any regard for anyone? Fair enough, you're one of those.

I don't like the behaviour of rude people very much - or find them very interesting. Why do you think I should, to make you feel better?

Sorry this goes back to HMC several pages ago. No of course they should not have exited the campsite, but I couldn't understand why instead of being apologetic for waking everyone up they put the onus on everyone else for being unhappy about having their sleep disturbed.

If children are going to be seen as equal members of society then we have to accept that not everyone will like them or engage wih them. And I think it's good for them to learn that just because they'renice, and well behaved, that doesn't mean that people will always respond positively to them.

I agree that particularly loud and unpleasant children are a trial for the rest of us when we're out and about. And that goes for loud and unpleasant adults too. But while I try to be polite to anyone I meet on a daily basis, there will be children who try to engage with me that I simply don't see or have the energy for. In the same way I don't always for adults.

Frankly I think the whole bloody country revoles round children's needs- a bit more consideration for grown ups and a bit more benign neglect of children would be a huge improvement. Children have learned that their needs come first and their parents are so scared of letting them be bored for q single micro second that they expect 24 hour entertainment. Which means that they have no idea how to entertain themselves and don't develop any inner resources. Rant over- as you were.

Seeker-well said!

BlingLoving, I certainly do accept it. I see that it's part of their socialisation into our society as it stands.

However, I still don't look at my 8 month old's confused face when his attempts to engage another person have been ignored - or worse, when he's been glared at - and think: "ah, that's been a great opportunity for him to learn that people won't always respond to his smiles'. It's a fact of life, but in the same way, it is a fact of life that sometimes there will be noisy children on the train who interrupt your book reading. Two sides of the same coin.

I simply think it's hypocritical for an adult to whine say "oh no one understands what a tough time I'm having in my life" and simultaneously say that they have no interest in engaging with someone else because it doesn't match their current interests of priorities: if you want your needs to be considered by others, you need to consider theirs. Alternatively you can simply accept that you quite like this old anonymous society of ours, thanks very much, but no one cares about or has any more interest in whether you've had a rubbish day than you do about their baby's smile. However, to say "it's unreasonable for you not to consider all the many reasons I don't want you "in my space" but completely reasonable for me to ignore you" seems a bit, well.... unreasonable

I can only compare Spain with the UK (have lived in both with children), and I'd very much agree with others' comments. Spanish people do love children, and coo over babies to the extent that I used to have to sneak round side streets if I wanted to do my shopping in a hurry.

BUT facilities for children are minimal to non existent - no toys for children in the health centre (whereas here our doctors surgery has rocking horse, train track etc), the only nursery (age approx 1-3) had an adult/child ratio of 1:20 at one point, bus drivers wouldn't have dreamed of getting up & helping you get your buggy on the bus (admittedly this is rural wales, I guess they maybe don't do that in London!) etc etc.

I've never noticed people in the UK ignoring my child when she speaks/interacts with them - although I would say from observation that British people seem to be more likely to go all gooey over slightly older children, a cute talking toddler gets you a long way on a crowded train!

And also mumsnet isfull if threads about 'how dare people want to touch/interact/comment on my baby- they are obviously either dirty or paediphiles or both' You can't have it both ways!

Arses - you and I must live in different societies then. I know my neighbours very well and I would speak to people on the bus/in the supermarket etc. This unfriendly society you describe is media hype.

Not media hype, just depends where in the country you live. Here, where I live now, I know my neighbours and chat to people on the bus. At home, where I grew up, people would go out of their way to help you, talk to you etc, but when I lived in London, it was TOTALY different (and I know, not even all part spf London are bad for it) and you could die in the treet and people would simply step over you.

I was once followed around a museum by a huffing and sighing old bat when DS was about 3 (it was an exhibition that I have waited to see for ages at the British Museum). Ds was being very very good (standing by me or DH, holding hands) and not talking, running, getting in the way, smelling....

Anyway, this old bag was making a point of walking by harumping until I said 'what IS your problem?' and she snapped back 'children'. So I said loudly (as everyone around was busy picking their jaws up off the floor as she was being particularly unpleasant and people had noticed that she was circling clucking away) 'no, the problem is your attitude, you miserable old bat' (which was rather restrained for me). My mum has just died and I was a bit raw as she was lovely and would never be like that in public.

We went to see the Red Balloon on a Saturday afternoon. I took DS (about 4.5 yrs) to the loo before it started and when we got back to our seats an old couple a couple of rows back made a big act of collecting up their sandwiches and flask of tea (which they were not supposed to have there anyway) and relocating loudly. DS hadn't said a word as it was his first cinema trip and was in awe. It was a bloody kids matinee FFS!

Some people are just a bit crappy when it comes to kids.

Gosh curry-freak - you do sound miserable. Isn't it just a nice thing to do,to reciprocate a smile?!

I have 2.5 year old and 12 week old, the amount of people (ok so only 3 but feels a lot) that have said 'urrgghh, I dont do/like babies;, thats rude. I would not say I dont do/like elderly/middleaged/male/female people'!!! Imagine applying it to the e lderly, it would be ageism.

YABU

Kids can be a total pain in the arse.

There are enough threads on here about how annoying/ trying/ hard work people find their own kids, never mind the kids of strangers.

It's typical of the 'take offence at all costs' culture that people here are moaning about one or two grumpy old lady incidents and forgetting the hours, days and years of worship their kids have had from other people.

It's just an extension of the prevailing sense of entitlement - ie not one person is allowed to find your kids irritating.

I'm happy to smile at a baby/toddler/child but I don't really want to have a conversation with them while on public transport,and I've met parents who expected me to have a long and involved conversation with their child when really I'd rather not. I just want to enjoy my book,though if you have a baby I'll probably spend most of my time making faces at it. I've a soft spot for babies.

Even worse are the parents who think that I want to entertain their toddler when I'm trying to talk to my friend/enjoy my meal, that's happened to me a few times now and it's incredibly annoying.

That said I make an exception when flying. There I'll happily hold a baby so the parents can eat, talk with a toddler or help to keep your six year old amused etc Anything to distract me from the fact that I'm 50,000 feet in the air.

Generally speaking I do like children.

When I worked in reception I'd buy,with my own money, sweets and treats,animal pens, wooden yo yos,puzzles etc for the children who came in with their parents to collect their car,as they usually were in for half an hour or so,and made my portable dvd player available with child friendly dvds. So I don't think I'm that much of a grump.

And some children really are obnoxious,often thanks to their parents. I have little time for those.

albertcamus my DD has NEVER been allowed to tantrum in a restaurant. As I made clear in my post, we are fairly strict but have no problem with her behaving as a normal child (including talking, laughing and pointing etc etc). That does not include tolerating or ignoring tantrums, banging on tables, running around or other behaviour.
I have removed her from a restaurant once but as she has been exposed to nice restaurants since she was weaning, she generally behaves herself. However as parents we come prepared with little books and a drawing book.
we have never kept her out late to go to a restaurant - we always go at lunchtime or for a 4pm dinner, so never 'inconvenience' other diners out for a nice evening as we are normally gone by 6.30/7pm.

I take exception to your implication that my child should not experience eating out, good chefs and good manners. i do not want her to end up in mass-produced pubs with soft play and crap kids menu because she has no idea how to behave in a restaurant.
In France, we ate out once at night and actually it was one of the better experiences. DD (one year old) woke once and cried. DP immediately asked if there was somewhere quiet he could take her to comfort her. They were lovely and found a little room, he was fab and rocked her back to sleep then rejoined me. Generally I found the French fairly child intolerant in supermarkets and when pushing the pushchair along narrow busy roads.

I live near Liverpool and we are very lucky to have Simply Heathcotes - borderline Michelin star standard and actively welcomes children of all ages. I would also recommend Le Manoir Aux Quatre Saisons as ultra child welcoming with 2 stars.

To be honest, i didn't want to come across as smug, so made mention of her difficult times in my first post, but in reality she is an angel child, knows how to behave in public (generally) and we are very blessed.
I firmly believe if we treat children as human beings and with respect, we will have a better society all round.

YANBU

Oh my curryfreak you do come across as a misery.

"in this country, diners in restos glare at you before you've even sat down to eat and ds has said or done nothing, ditto tube passengers, by and large. So, no I think that while we do have betetr provision for children, we are not very friendly about them"

I agree - you get people eyeing you suspiciously as you arrive (before anyone has uttered a sound or done a single thing!), they seem to regard children like some sort of unexploded incendiary device. Mercifully my children tend not to let me down, however it does make for some strained dining experiences as waves of hostility radiate towards you for no good reason (and being the misanthropist I am - I glare levelly back in a 'Yeah?' kind of way )

Hmc.- i think that's cos there's lots of badly behaved children about. Your's sound lovely, and not like that at all.
We eat out regularly as a family, and it's a pleasure. That's because my children are well behaved and respectful of other people. they've been brought up that way. it really is that simple!