To get annoyed with the general intolerance towards children?

[BobMarley]

Now I'm all for children being tought how to behave especially in public, but I recently had my 5-year old snapped at by an old lady because she ran passed her. On the promenade by the beach. Opposite the children's zone. The old lady was sitting outside her beach hut and my daughter ran passed.

Another time someone on Facebook complained about a child incessantly talking on a train. She thought it was unacceptable in public and the parent should have kept the child quiet because it was annoying everyone. Needless to say this was someone who did not have children. When I commented that she might think differently when she has children of her own I got flamed.

AIBU to think people are just intolerant and children aren't allowed to be children and are expected to be mini-adults?

Not talking as much but shouting, repetitively.

Well-behaved children are welcome anywhere. Those who think the ocntinentals are much more welcoming, have a look at their children - they know how to behave in public (they have table manners, eat what is given to them, and take part in the conversation). They don't have a hissy fit if they are not given crayons and a colouring book. They can sit for hours.

Having just spent 5 hours on a train I can assure you some children drive you mad.
The train had TV things in the back of the seats and while DS1 age 14 sat with his head in a book the whole time we paid £3.50 for DS2 age 9 to get a code that made the TV thing work and he sat delighted that he got to watch so much TV, however there was the child that had his mothers I pod full volume so everyone else had to listen to bad music, the child who spat his food all over his mum when the TV thing he was watching ran out and then kept repeating don't squeeze the juice box over and over till I would have been quite happy to squeeze him down the bloody tiny train toilet (thankfully they and I pod boy all got off half way in to the journey)
We also had miss mobile phone giving her friends a blow by blow account of her train journey and some Dilbert who got on with 4 kids 3 of whom ran up and down while the 4th was strapped it to a pushchair that the knobhead father pushed down the aisle hitting peoples arms and legs as he went.

I hate the train I really do

I agree, I don't mind general chatter from anyone, when it's directed at the person being spoken to, but some children are allowed to shout, or to talk at top volume non stop which is downright bad manners. But I don't think that's a 'children' issue, because anyone who does that is rude. One of my bugbears is parents of very young children who give the top volume commentary to their child, obviously intending everyone else to hear it - eg I was on the train yesterday, and a woman with a young child kept up a top volume commentary throughout : 'Look at the cows, what colour are they? Look at the trees, ooh look at the river...' Some parents don't seem to realise that you can talk to children in exactly the same conversational tone you would use to another adult!

Runaway, that is why I travel first class, even with my children.

Would love to use 1st class all the time but the cost is ridiculous, I have also come across some right numptys in 1st class as well.

Must pass driving test....

True, but they don't usually spray their food over you.

Tbh I have a general intolerance of my OWN kids in public, nevermind anyone else's!

Today, whilst I was packing the shopping, DD stood in the aisle of the supermarket which is at the end of the tills, where everyone walks past to leave the shop. She stuck her arms out wide, and started spinning around manically, crashing into passers by. Needless to say I put a stop to it more or less immediately, but I wouldn't blame passers by being a bit fed up with her (and probably me) tbh! The fact is kids can be annoying (especially nearly 4yo's!).

Crikey. If you've got a kid with autism or adhd then you're screwed..

Sheesh, must get my ds to be even irritating in public then.

The question was about the UK as a country tolerant of children: I think this thread (and many on MN) show that there are a great many people who tolerate children only when they are behaving as mini-adults.

There are huge amounts of structured developmental activities for children in the UK but IMO this does not excuse poor manners towards children by some adults in public places.

I see babies all the time who smile at strangers and are met with stony faces, it annoyed me long before I had a child. It's another human being trying to communicate with you, a second of eye contact and a brief smile won't cost the earth. Some adults push in front of children in queues, sigh and roll their eyes at the slightest of noises, scowl and generally behave in an abominable manner to children. "I just don't like kids" is an acceptable thing to say about another member of society - delete kid and insert "Asians" or "blacks" or "the disabled" and see how reasonable the same statement sounds. It's just silly to lump a group of individuals under one label and dismiss them, though of course people do.

Similarly, it is as unreasonable to be horrified at a 10 month old banging a spoon on a table, a 2 year old who manages to outsmart their parent and make a dash for the door and get under your feet for a brief second of time or a 3 year old chattering on a long train journey as it is to be disgusted by cultural practices that are different to your own. Suck it up, you're a grown up.

If a child is truly behaving badly e.g. running wildly around a store, your issue is really with their parents anyway, isn't it? Unless they are old enough to really understand what they are doing, in which case be as intolerant as you like.

I went to Ireland recently and was shocked at how much attention my 8 month old received: proper attempts to respond to his smiles and flirtatious glances and bibble babble. Here, I would say that there are more occasions that he is ignored than not. It seems to me the only time I ever had so much interaction with strangers here in the UK was when I had a puppy .

I don't know if this says anything about the UK or if it is more to do with larger urban communities, but I have noticed it as a trend in my interactions with others.

Sorry that should read:
""I just don't like kids" is an acceptable thing to say but would it be justifiable to apply this logic to explaining why you had ignored or shouted at another member of society - delete kid and insert "Asians" or "blacks" or "the disabled" and see how reasonable the same statement sounds. It's just silly to lump a group of individuals under one label and dismiss them, though of course people do."

i have never come across this attitude in fact quite the opposite

but I would ask mine to stop if they were doing something which could be irritating to others.

I was really upset the other day - I was in a Prezzo restuarant with a friend and our sons (mine is 10 months old, hers is just over 2 years). The boys were both really good, but towards the end, my lad got a little bit fractious, so I walked him round the restuarant for a bit, went to change his nappy, then had him on my lap, where he was fairly quiet, but omitted the occasional squeak.
In short, I attempted to be as considerate as possible.
Imagine my horror then, when I notice an old couple next to me, glaring away at every tiny noise my son made - who then proceeded to comment really loudly about how 'children shouldn't be allowed in restaurants'.
I could understand it if he had been racing around / screaming at the top of his voice etc, but he hadn't been, and I felt I'd been very respectful of those around us.
I've encountered this sort of hostility a few times, it makes me really sad - I just don't understand why some people are so intolerant of children.

Here, here arses!

Children are human beings and full members of society.

OP, YANBU. I don't care if it is only one person, or a minority. Bullying a child, just for being a child and daring to take up space is unacceptable.

I have not found it to bad and im out and about with 4dc and on public transport to .Yes ds3 will often give a running commentry on the train that sound slike squeals to most people s he is non verbal ,

I just ignore the ones that grump and truth if see some child runnibg around on the whole i feel sympathy for the parents knowing there be someone throwing them annoying looks.

But we travelled first class last week into London as no where else to put ds3 and his wheelchair and yes couple commuters did not look happy but when hit London one of them turned round and complememted ds 3 on his behaviour .

Mind see ds3 does not do any of that running round stuff

Same as katiestar, I can't say I've really come across this attitude.

TBH I get just as fed up with the parents who have no control over their bloody children and think as long as they are being left alone then sod the fact everyone else is having to put up with rude and badly behaved children

Why would you want loud children on a train? Whether you have children of your own or not, you don't want to be disturbed by other peoples shouty children. It is just inconsiderate. Children should be taught to talk quietly on public transport.

Nothing worse than an awfully long day at work and then having collapsed onto a train to have a family sit near you with loud annoying children. Some parents really think their little darlings are so delightful that everyone must want to hear what they have to say.

children today are spoilt rotten asnd behave awfully. the parents are to blame for this.

I actually think the attitutude to children is great in the UK generally. I speak as a grandma and am continually amazed at how relaxing it is to take our dgs out for meals and attractions. Everything is in total contrast to when we had our own children, nearly 40 years ago (sorry - v aged). It was a nightmare then, no changing facilities, no children's menus, no highchairs in restaurants. Now, we take the grandchildren in for lunch and out come colouring pencils, special menus, and everyone loves them.

However, I do think it depends on the children. Our dgs are of course quite perfect (!) but some children (only a small minority) can behave very badly in public and then I think older people especially can get fed up when they are not restrained.

I've lived in 11 different countries now, and find people tend to confuse "child friendly" with "good facilities for children". I find the UK to be child unfriendly, but it has good facilities for children. By which I mean you get great parks and changing facilities and children's menus, but a fair amount of dirty looks and deep-seated expectation that children must "behave" in public (this almost always means not annoying any adults). This really isn't the case in truly child-friendly places, and it doesn't mean children are spoiled, loud and out of control. It just means they are expected to be a bit noisy and very childlike, and most (not all!)people treasure that.

Still, the parks in the UK ARE very nice.

I don't think the Stranger Danger message helps. It means some adults are afraid to make friendly advances to children and the children themselves are scared to respond in a friendly way. In the name of protecting children we have all become quite scared of natural contact.

i like hearing children chatter, friends having a chat, couples whispering to each other. but if its loud or they are in your way its annoying, i have brought my DD's up to have manners. thats:
holding the door open, getting out of other peoples way, talking quietly in a shared public indoor space such as a train or bus. i have taught them to say 'excuse me' and 'thank you' and 'please' it has been drilled into them from a very young age. they are all teenagers now, and having worked in schools for 10 years after they were all born, only about 10% of children [thats state and private] have manners that i would consider important in daily life. and i am far from snobby.
i find loud, continuous noise annoying whoever you are. i agree that european children are to my experience extremely well behaved, thats why they are brought out in public in the evenings, it is not the other way round!