To get annoyed with the general intolerance towards children?

[BobMarley]

Now I'm all for children being tought how to behave especially in public, but I recently had my 5-year old snapped at by an old lady because she ran passed her. On the promenade by the beach. Opposite the children's zone. The old lady was sitting outside her beach hut and my daughter ran passed.

Another time someone on Facebook complained about a child incessantly talking on a train. She thought it was unacceptable in public and the parent should have kept the child quiet because it was annoying everyone. Needless to say this was someone who did not have children. When I commented that she might think differently when she has children of her own I got flamed.

AIBU to think people are just intolerant and children aren't allowed to be children and are expected to be mini-adults?

Nothing more annoying than the disapproving looks and tuts from miserable sods when children are laughing and playing imo

We still live in a 'children should be seen but not heard' society. My sister took my nephew to Butlins a couple of weeks ago, he probably has Aspergers and he's 3. All he was doing was saying hello to the shop staff and they were ignoring him so he was upset for the whole week. Children are treated shockingly by some people. I'm not surprised we have the most unhappy children and teenagers in Europe.

just because it is 'normal' for a 10 month old to bang a spoon on the table, doesn't mean it doesn't make you wince every time it happens and wish it wasn't happening near you.

when i travel by train it's usually part of a very very long and stressful work day and i am knackered.. i don't expect children to be quiet but i reserve the right to try to block their exuberance out and ignore them.

Maybe there should be separate sound proof train carriages for the knackered workers

The thing is though - they're YOUR kids - not the rest of the worlds'. The rest of the world might have had a really crud day, might have stuff going on at home, might be tired, might be having a miscarriage - you never know - there's so many reasons why they might not want to take the time to smile sweetly at your baby... you're being unreasonable if you expect them to really - and, being honest, if they all DO stop and smile at your baby and make gooey noises - you'd be back on here posting a "Am I being unreasonable to be sick of random strangers talking to my baby" thread within five minutes too. Look at the "health and safety" thread to find out just how badly the general public get bashed by some on here when they DO take an interest in kids.

I've spent years looking AWAY from babies in prams - because they upset me so and for my own personal reasons... why should I have had to put myself through something I found emotionally distressing to spare your feelings?

As for flights/trains etc - anyone on them making noise/kicking the back of my seat DOES irritate me. I'm terrified of flying - I really enjoyed having to endure a really really turbulent flight recently where my silent prayers to the forces of Physics and God to keep the thing up in the air was accompanied with an incredibly loud set of screeches of "OOOOOHHHH WE'RE GOING UP IN THE AIR.... OOOH WE'RE GOING UP AND DOWN AND UP AND DOWN... OOOOOH THE PLANE WENT DOWN A BIT THERE.... MUMMY DO YOU THINK WE'RE GOING TO CRASH" at absolutely full volume.

I don't think it's too bad here most of the time, there are always miserable so-and-so's anywhere...

One thing I noticed on a recent holiday to France was that in the supermarket they had child sized shopping trolleys which made the whole trip so much more fun! Also, at the zoo the toilet cubicles contained a large toilet, a small partition then a low toilet and a low sink. I thought this really catered to the needs of the clientele at the zoo - no more squashing into tiny cubicles with each child, and probably shorter queues too.

Child-friendly Britain - well, is it? No.

You are reasonable to get annoyed with the general intolerance towards children. I have too many examples of intolerance towards children to list.

littlemisslozza-yes but that would take up twice the space of a regular cubicle.Which means that people would have to wait twice as long.

Well, not really because they had just as many cubicles as we are generally used to here. Also, at the zoo many people will have young children with them so it's quicker in that respect.

Last time anybody was grumpy about our kids, it was a French woman in a museum in the South of France, so the rest of the world isn't perfect.

OTOH the child sized trolleys in the French supermarket were brilliant.

emptyshell, of course most people understand that there are some people find it difficult to be around kids for personal reasons.. However, I don't believe everyone who wrinkles their noses in disdain at a child for playing has a deep-seated psychological reason for doing so. There's a lot of the 'me generation' to it for many: I deserve my "quiet" time, how dare people infringe on my "space" etc.

I don't like it when I see my boy flash a wide grin at someone and see them respond with a death stare, when he's not making a racket or being in any way obtrusive: just being a wide-eyed baby in love with the world. His little face crumples. However, the fact I don't like this is not because he's my pfb, believe my child in particular is special or wonderful or that his needs should come above the needs of others. I just think, as human beings, we have such a short time on this earth in which we believe everyone has good intentions towards us: I don't like to see the road to reality in action.

In all of this I am referring to those situations where it's not about discipline, just kids being kids e.g. a baby shrieking on the bus, a toddler making a racket at the beach and particularly those situations where children are being perfectly well-behaved and still glared at, like the poster above who mentioned her experience in Prezzo.

Intolerance of poor discipline or manners, I understand. Intolerance of children just because they are children I deplore. All normal disclaimers apply.

Asda used to have child sized trolleys. They were a terrible idea.

You'd have at least half a dozen toddlers bashing into your ankles, and the parents always looked harassed as their child threw anything within reach that had at least five E numbers into their mini trolley only for the parents to take it back out,to find they'd thrown yet another family sized pack of Iced Gems in.

They DO deserve their quiet time - they didn't choose to have your children.

No one is under any obligation to turn into mush when your baby smiles - you're being utterly unreasonable to make those demands for a life choice YOU made onto other people.

I like kids - but I have an incredibly low tolerance for those parents who refuse to accept that others may not want to have their offspring forced (which is what you're trying to do by chucking a strop at those who won't smile back at your baby) onto others.

And a baby shrieking on the bus is a blooming loud noise - surprisingly - people tend to look toward the source of a loud noise before trying to shut it out in whatever way they see fit (chucking an ipod on, staring out of the window) - but it pees them off... I'm sure it would pee you off if you had my dear husband sat next to you snoring his head off. Why should they be forced to be "bad" because they're being made to feel discomfort?

I was at the football a while ago - for a season ticket I pay a considerable amount of money for (with the way we played that season - they should have been paying US but never mind). The seats behind weren't taken by season tickets that year for whatever reason - and I ended up one match with a young boy behind me, who spent the entire 90 minutes kicking me in the back of the neck. Understandably - I turned around to see exactly WHAT was booting me in the back of the neck every 30 seconds... gobful of abuse from parents about how "he's just a kid". Yes, he's just a kid but it's blooming hurting me - that is NOT on. I don't care if it's "kids being kids" - when it's causing discomfort or annoyance to others - it's not acceptable behaviour.

arses love your posts on this thread. I feel so sorry for parents whose kids won't stop crying/screaming, who get filthy looks from others. What are they meant to do? Smother it? As for the idea that restaurants aren't for kids - huh?? Why not? Don't kids eat food?

Badly behaved kids/parents who ignore bad manners and rudeness: Not fair on kids not to give them a chance to grow up well behaved.

I have to say though, the last time I was on a train, there was a pair of girls, who mother was talking to them in a very loud, very patronising, babying tone (I would guess they were 5 and 7 ish). Having huffed and sighed for a while at the 'Ooooh, look at that - can you see the moo-cow? Do we like moo-cows? Yes we do. We know what noise they make, don't we?' commentary for a while, I was delighted when one of the kids said 'Mummy, you should keep your voice down, people don't want to hear your conversation'. I nearly applauded.

My experience is the same as Strawberrycake's.

I've heard a couple incidents similar to OP but I think these kind of people are everywhere, not only in the UK.

We lived in Spain and yes, when I took DD out, I used to have to build in an extra 30 mins because every body used to stop us to coo over her, every shopkeeper used to give her something etc. We could take her out with us at night and be out til midnight, breastfeeding in the smartest restaurants without anyone batting an eyelid.

But there was no baby-changing, no high-chairs in restaurants/cafes, no playgroups, children's options, no Tumbletime/toy libraries/children's classes etc - not exactly essential but they make life much easier. Most of the childcare would not have passed the most basic Ofsted inspection (fine if you have your mother living round the corner but that doesn't apply even to many Spanish women nowadays). Furthermore, all baby stuff (clothes, prams, food etc) was much harder to find and cost an absolute fortune compared with the UK.

I find being in the UK much easier than Spain - except for the old ladies tutting at my pram on the bus but that's a whole other different thread...

Its only the UK that has this dreadful victorian 'children should be seen and not heard' attitude, funny that we are the only country that has social problems with our teens. Most teens are lovely if you just talk to them, its no wonder they have a face on when grumpy sods glare at them all the time.

Good posts arses.

This thread alone just shows how child-unfriendly the UK is. Bring your child on the train/ to the restaurant but heaven forbid that he might, um, act like a child. .

According to other posters, my culture is just a cliche (thanks), but the difference to me is that, if they see a bored or upset child, they don't look the other way or get annoyed - they actually go and help. Yes, you got that - strangers trying to help parents occupy, entertain and amuse children in difficult situations, instead of getting huffy at 'those loud, obnoxious children'.

Overseas, I've had strangers play with my DS, smile at him, make faces, offer him biscuits - whatever it takes to settle and entertain him. Sure, facilities may not be as advanced but people just aren't as obsessed by personal space and quiet as in the UK.

I love arses comments, spot on. I agree with Isawthreeships too. In Italy they may not have child friendly facilities, but the fact that people are friendly and not uptight and genuinely seem to love children, more than makes up for that. We were in a posh restaurant over there in May and my DS was getting a bit bored, no screaming or anything, he was just wriggly (he was 22 months then) so a lovely old Italian gent at the table opposite put his napkin up to his face and started pulling silly faces. DS loved it. There are too many people in the UK who moan about everything and everyone, don't get me wrong, there are lovely people too thankfully, but I come across lots of child-haters.

I can give you an outsider point of view: I think Britain is VERY, VERY child-friendly, if you compare it to, for example, Spain or other Mediterranean countries. This is, of course, my own appreciation, let me tell you why:

• In Britain, you are not allowed to smoke indoors in public places. In Spain, everywhere you go there are lots of smokers and they will not stop smoking because there's a child near.

• In Britain, most pubs are child-friendly, which means you can actually have a bit of social life, even if it's just to have a meal with friends.

• In Britain, you can get a high chair for your baby almost at any restaurant. I've eaten out in lots of cool places with DD since she was 2! OK, a bit messy at first, but I never felt people where killing us with their looks.

• In Britain, you don't yell at kids so much. Of course, there will be parents who do so, but I see people treat children more respectfully in general.

• In Britain, you don't swear in front of kids so much.

• In Britain, especially in London, you have lots of nice coffees, mums meetings, playgroups and child activities... while in Spain, if you have a child and want to go out, either you leave him in a nursery or go shopping or to the park. There are not really many things to do for mums and kids together.

So yes, I think Britain is a great place for kids. I have however, a couple of British friends who live in my natal city, in Spain, and they say THIS is great, because people are more spontaneous towards children etc (which usually means touching your children -in the head, patting them, etc- without asking first, speaking/yelling at them, etc etc). They think it's more natural this way, and complain that in Britain, people are usually afraid to touch other people's children, even if they have to (because they are in danger, etc). I don't know, the time I've been in London I've felt people were very nice to DD, some old ladies would even smile at her in the bus and she would get lots of sympathy from adults.

And the parks! In Spain, at least in the South where I come from, there is an enourmous lack of green spaces!