MIL has crossed the line... don't know what to do?

[PiscesLondon]

firstly, i'm not a MIL basher at all. my MIL is helpful, kind and a good person and we get on well.

i don't post alot but some of you may remember a couple of months back i mentioned on a thread that my MIL had a dangerous dog (pitbull type) it's HUGE, very possessive of MIL and goes absolutely beserk when my 9 month of DD is at her home. when my OH and i visit with DD, we insist it's locked of the room, actually locked out with the key in the door (she has locks on every door) but TBH we don't visit much (about once a month) because the dog barks and growls non stop and it's not nice to sit and listen to for anyone. PIL come to our home instead once a week to see baby and MIL takes her out for a few hours to the park or to visit MIL's brother.

from the word go OH and i have insisted that MIL doesn't take DD home with her on the days she takes her out. last time dog was around a child (MIL'S nephew) the dog went for him god forbid if the dog got out of the locked room their is no way MIL could control it. she has agreed with me and told me she understands although she still makes the odd snide comment about it not being able to get through a locked door.

today she took my DD home with her for the day behind my back and i'm thinking that this may have been a regular occurance. i'm really hurt that she hasn't respected my wishes and angry that she thinks she has the right to take such a risk.

OH and i have spoken to her, obviously the first thing we said was that we weren't happy that she went behind our backs. her response was that she locked the dog out all day and that she wasn't stupid. she was really defensive and a bit pissed off and said 'it's pathetic' normally i would be so angry and lose my temper but i stayed really calm and explained that as a mother i didn't want that risk being taken. TBH i am a bit pissed off with myself as i felt really awkward and was worried about upsetting her too much, now i feel i didn't stand my ground enough and i need to make it clearer that it's my child and my rules. OH lead the conversation and basically said she was a great grandmother and the problem wasn't with her, just the dog but she better not do it again. 'ok' was her response

i'm still angry, my daughter's safety is more important that anyones feelings and had it been a member of my family i'd have gone beserk! AIBU to want to bring this up again and make it clear that she does this again and she isn't seeing her without supervision?

what would you do in my position? i'm genuinely upset about this.

Sounds like a tragedy waiting to happen. Sort some other childcare and keep child away from her house. No idea why people keep ill behaved, aggressive noisy dogs.

Valhalla - my point was that I didn't see the relevance in stating that it was unreasonable to label the dog a "pit bull type". The dog quite clearly is untrustworthy regardless of it's origins or type. And apparently it is of bull terrier/pit bull terrier origin. So the OP was not unreasonable. Anyway, we both agree that the OP should follow her instincts - that is the important point.

"The dog quite clearly is untrustworthy regardless of it's origins or type".

Exactly, Mowiol. The dog's breed isn't relevent, that was what I was trying to say (obviously very badly, school hols stress setting in already!). It's a bit like saying, "The black/Chinese man who served me in the shop stole my money". The black/Chinese bit would be equally irrelevent.

I said this as I work with dogs and see far too much of the "it's a PBT/Rottie/GSD/SBT, it must be dangerous" attitude when ime this is far from the case. I'm just trying to prevent the connection between the breed and the prejudice which occurs sometimes, as we have seen here on MN, with some people saying, for example, that they wouldn't let their DC near a particular breed regardless of the dog's personality. I struggle to get such dogs out of a put to sleep situation and into rescue and then to kind homes and find that views such as this are heartbreakingly harmful to perfectly nice dogs and do, and always will, struggle to challenge those opinions.

I still think that the MIL is probably a loon, though to play devil's advocate, it's a close call insofar as we only have the OP's word that the dog is dangerous and went for her nephew. The MIL says he was only playing and no doubt would give a different account as a result.

In that respect, holdingg my hands up to the fact that I'm 99% of the time on the side of the dog, I'll sit on the fence although like you I maintain that the parent's wishes should be respected no matter what the other person thinks, unless the child will clearly be harmed by that desire.

And of course, the OP was indeed not unreasonable, now that I know what the dog's origin is. I was reacting with concern as so often I get told, as a rescuer, that a dog is of PBT "type" when he is nothing of the sort. I stand corrected!

PiscesLondon - I would continue with your plans for MIL to have your DD tomorrow when you go to your appointment, let them spend some time together at your house.

Then when you get back and the atmosphere is a bit more relaxed, explain to her that you are hurt that she took that risk with your DD, explain that you understand that she doesn't see it as a risk, but you do and you are hurt that she didn't respect that - tell her that for now, until you feel more comfortable again - she is welcome to visit your DD at your home but you are not comfortable with her being taken out of the house.

A possible compromise?

YANNNNN BU I would be livid and I wouldn't trust her to take her away from the home at all.

I don't think it matters that dogs can't get through locked doors because the agreement was that the MIL did not care for the child on her own in that house, and she went against this and took the DC there behind the parent's wishes.

So if she is going behind the parents back about the house, and the OP suspects its not the first time (so she has been doing it deceptively and with holding the truth about where she takes the child) then WHY believe her when she says the dog is out the other side of a locked door?

I don't think this is just about the door, I don't think she agrees about how risky this dog is full stop! I had a dog that ONCE ever went for a child, and even though it wasn't otherwise a particularly aggressive dog I had it put down. This woman has a dog that's gone for a child IN HER FAMILY and still wants that dog around - so I wouldn't trust her judgement TBH

Think she should get rid of the damned dog. Why has she got a dangerous growling dog when she's got grandkids - madness. [hmmm]

If that dog has gone for a child already then I wouldn't set foot in that house ever, with or without your DD, for 2 reasons.

1. I would be too freaked out to sit there listening to the dog. Also having a dog snarling, barking and growling outside is a recipe for a child to have a phobia of dogs imo.

1. It isn't fair on the dog locking it outside of it's own home and that is how it would see it. I don't think tormenting the animal is a great idea in any case but when it has issues with jealousy then definately not.

I dont blame you for being on edge. I wouldn't be allowing MIL to take baby out for quite some time. Yes she SAID the dog was outside but why should you believe her? She went behind your back.

yanbu

"SHe's said OK. Isn't that enough? "

I do not think it is as from the OP I understand that she had already agreed before that incident that she wouls not take the child to her house. I would not trust her WRT that issue anymore either.

I do not usually "get" dogs POV but I think Prozacfairy's point 2 makes sense.

Some people really believe that their dogs won't bite or attack anyonw.

Unfortunately they do. I have a little Jack Russell and when my 2.5 and 1.4 DGC are at my home the dog has to stay outside.

It's very quiet and placid and 12 years old, but no way will I take any chances.

On a lighter note, I was at my Aunt's home and cousin turned up with small child. Cousin asked Aunt to put her dog outside.

When Aunt said the child would be fine, cousin replied "I'm not worried about the child, I'm worried about the dog being attacked by the child".

again, thanks for all replies, they have really helped to give me a clear view from all sides.

after sleeping on it, i'm still bewildered by the fact that she really doesn't seem to think we should have an issue with her. she needs to know that she has breached our trust and that she must never, ever do that again.

the thing is, my FIL rang up to check if MIL had got home (to our house) with the baby safely (as it was really bad rain) he explained he had come home from work early and she had been at home with our DD. he is the most docile man you will ever meet, he lives in cloud cuckoo land, but is lovely, and even though he knows how we feel about DD being their it must have slipped his mind (this is often the case with him) when MIL walked into our home and heard my OH say 'bye dad' on the phone, the penny dropped for her and her exact words were 'i know you'll go mad but i've had the baby at ours for the afternoon, the dog was locked out' so by her saying that, she KNOWS she done wrong, then she just carried on regardless playing with DD and not a bit bothered about what she'd just said.

i don't need MIL to 'babysit' i give her the option as she is her grandmother and she wants to spend time with her. my DD is due to start nursery 3 days per week in sept whilst i attend college but MIL has asked if she can have DD one of those days. originally i was totally fine with it, now i'm undecided, the only option is that she can have her for the one day that i'm in college for 3 hours and that she must carry her mobile with her so i can call her and collect my DD straight after i finish. (we bought her a mobile as she kept forgetting the keys to our house when she had DD for the day and it got frustrating as we weren't at home on a few occassions when she returned) but she refuses to carry it, saying it's not charged or it isn't working properly! the only way she'll get my DD that day though is if she tells me were she is going (her borther's house, or sister's house or to the park or something) and we agree that's were i collect her from the second i finish college.

*re - the nephew being attacked by the dog - OH's brother insists it showed it's teeth to the child and growled then jumped up on him, and therefore doesn't think my DD being around is a great idea. MIL insists the dog was playing.

sorry to ramble! just wanted to give some more info on the situation.

I don't think you need to talk much more, I think that politely declining that she take your daughter out of your sight on each occasion it comes up will be far more effective. To avoid a rift you could keep repeating positive things, You're her grandmother, she loves you, I love it that you're so close etc etc, 'But I need the baby to be where I can see her.'

Over time - maybe when your daughter's verbal - you may find you can relax things again.

None of this is your fault. You can't trust her. So no point in extracting more promises/apologies from her, and more likely to cause a row if you actually state you don't trust her.

just wanted to add, she said in the conversation last night that she too doesn't trust dog around DD as she is boisterous and excitable, but the dog is locked out. so basically she thinks that solves the problem.

GIDDLY- that's how i feel right now, like she has zero respect for me as a mother and it's quite hurtful.

OH has told me he has said his piece and now believes she'll do as asked, it's his mum he loves her and she will respect his wishes. i think it will cause trouble between us if i don't let her have her for a few hours (obviously with strict rules and the insistence of the mobile phone being taken) he has said though if i feel i need to say more about the situation to her then he'll back me up if necessary.

PiscesLondon - why do they have a dangerous dog?

You say your FIL is docile - that doesn't seem a good sign to me as far as training a dog is concerned.

Of course YANBU to want to protect your daughter from this dog but it does sound as though you are happy - OK not ecstatic - for your DD to be in the house when you are there if the dog is locked away. To your MIL it must seem as if it is her you don't trust to protect your DD. It is a bit of a mixed message otherwise.

Perhaps you don't and perhaps this incident has further eroded your trust in her but in my mind you need to decide if you do trust her - if you do you should trust her judgement, if not she can no longer be allowed to look after your DD alone.

"I wouldn't be letting MIL see her again without supervision EVER"

I 1000% agree

YANBU to be really pissed off about this.

I grew up with Staffordshire Bull Terriers (my mum bred them) But can tell you I never came to harm through one of my mum's dogs. Why? Because of training, because of how they were treated, because my mum was aware that they are a powerful breed of dog and never underestimated them. She did get one from another owner that she never managed to train. When it became clear that the dog was going to be a continuing danger, she rehomed him. End of.

I don't understand why people buy a powerful/aggressive dog and then come out with 'he's only playing' etc. It's reminiscent of people that refer to the dog as 'puppy' and say he wouldn't hurt a fly. people who own dogs like this should not deliberately close their eyes to the fact that it is a potentially dangerous animal.

A lot of the cases of children mauled by dogs turn out a) to be owned by a relative b)quite often are usually kept locked away but a mistake was made in some way.

animation - he tries to tell the dog off, smack it on the nose, throw it out if the dog is badly behaved. MIL's response is always the same 'leave it alone' stroking dog, patting it etc... when i say docile, i mean forgetful, puts his foot in his mouth often and worst of all unstrapped DD out of her car seat, THEN picked the car seat up and she fell from a height on the carpeted floor at 6 weeks old she was fine thank god but this is another reason i don't trust her being their. how can i even be sure he'd lock the door properly???

fizzpops - yes, i hadn't thought of it like that, although OH did explain that if he is there and the dog did somehow manage to get in the room he would have a far better chance of overpowering it (he's 6ft 2 and a big build) rather than she would when she's at home alone with DD.

I don´t understand why when PIL visit you she then takes your daughter back to her house.

I don´t see why when you had your appointment she couldn´t have looked after your daughter at your house.

When they visit you & she takes your daughter to hers-where is the dog?

Would they have locked the dog out or in another room before coming to you or would she somehow have to negotiate the dog when she gets to hers?

Well she told you she wouldn´t do it again & she has & tbh I wouldn´t care who I upset over it.

When my PFB was on SCBU in an incubator MIL couldn´t figure out the soap dispenser-so she wasn´t going to bother to wash her hands as "she was his Gran & it didn´t apply to her

I knew then that I´d never trust her alone with him.

Does your DD go round there quite often?

I think you should stick to visits at your house and in other places for 2 reasons. The most important being your DD's safety. Also if indeed the dog is kept "locked away" all day it's downright cruel to the dog. No wonder its going mad when people do visit.

PiscesLondon, it's okay to go back to the conversation if you didn't manage to get across what you meant at the time.

I support your view that she has broken your trust and that you cannot be certain she will keep your child safe. The fact that she quibbles over carrying the mobile phone also suggests that she does not want to consent to your wishes. I would play hardball in these circumstances and insist on supervised visits only.

Good luck saying your bit.

YANBU

Your MIL hasn't given you any indication that she she's truly sorry and would genuinely take your wishes on board in future.

People treat us the way we let them, unfortunately. You're going to have to toughen up and lay down some clearer boundaries. Your focus has to be the safety of your dd and not MIL's feelings. People respect you more when you show that you have enough self-respect to stand up for what you think is right.

FWIW my dd would NOT be trusted to the care of anyone who has shown themselves to be untrustworthy.

I think you have to be tough with MIL and simply say that she can only see DD when you or DH are present. DD goes to nursery for 3 days a week as planned. Even if one of those days is only 3 hrs, you could use the rest of the day to do stuff for yourself, extra study, shopping, or things you would rather not have to bring the baby with you. Don't give the opportunity for MIL to take DD anywhere alone. I don't think she'll get the point that you mean what you say otherwise.

It is obvious that the dog is badly trained, poorly socialized and aggressive because of it. I cannot understand why the woman wants to keep it. That last post says it all really. Lets hope she doesn't have a serious angina attack, on her own at home, and needs an ambulance. There's no way paramedics will enter to help her until a dog team come to secure the dog. She could be putting her own health at risk.