Payments to ex wife. Opinions sought.

[TheWaspFactory]

I'm told this is a good place to get opinions. Don't hold back please ladies...

I have a six year old son to my ex wife. We have been separated for about 2 years now and are on cordial, if not friendly terms.

He lives with her and I see him every other weekend.

I currently pay a considerable sum every month to my ex by way of child support. This amount is much more than I would pay through a CSA enforced agreement. I actually suggested this amount as I want the best for my son.

Living and financial arrangements have been agreed between myself and my ex wife informally.

I should point out that I'm by and large happy (well, satisfied maybe) with the concept if not the execution of this plan. Ideally I'd like to have full time residency of my son but my ex wife has made clear she doesn't want this to happen so for the moment, this situation is probably the best for all concerned.

However, I've an issue with the amount I pay and how it is used. I pay this cash for the benefit of my son - not my ex wife. I neither care nor know how she supports herself. The thing is I'm not convinced she is actually spending this cash on my son.

Would I be unreasonable to ask for receipts or some kind of evidence of where my money is going? I appreciate that a significant amount of this is rolled up in to my ex wife's living costs (housing, etc) which can't be separated from supporting my son and to be fair he's not exactly going hungry but I end up buying him most of the stuff I expect my monthly payment to pay for. For example, I end up buying the vast majority of his clothes when he's with me, most of his schooling expenses (trips, uniform, etc) are paid by me, toys - again by me. All the material things end up at my ex's home.

As far as I'm concerned I'm supporting my son - not my ex wife. This money is meant to pay for him, not her handbags and holidays.

I'm tempted to tear up our agreement and go down the official route. As I'm self employed the amount the CSA would specify would be a fraction of what I'm paying now. The balance I could put in to a trust or similar for my son when he's older.

However, before I do this, I thought the receipt idea might be a fair push to actually get wife to spend my money on my son.

Opinions please? I appreciate that this may not be a "popular" post but thought a view from the "other side" might be enlightening...

I lived with my nan and my 'mother' never paid a penny towards my keep either. My dad, nan and step grandad all paid for me.

My friends DH also lived with his dad because he chose to. Some children have a great relationship with their dads. Not all mums are that great, (not saying the mum in the OP isn't) but thinking more about mine.

My dh's dad was resident parent for him and his brother. His mum didn't pay maitenence at all and fil worked ft to support them.

Dh loathes his mum and the situation when they were children has exacerbated this.

I think a lot of men are like this when their wives have the audacity to leave them.

Having a child per se does not prevent you from working, earning enough to pay for suitable childcare DOES prevent some people form working.

depends on the job and the cost of the childcare.

The father does not have to think about arranging childcare, the mother does. It has to be paid for. She could dump the child on him every morning and go to work, picking him up every evening. That would sort it out nicely as far as she was concerned.

Once he realises the hassle of arranging childcare and also paying it, he might feel differently.

How many non-resident fathers would agree to having their offspring 9-5 Monday to Friday?

OP, you sound like a wanker. Reciepts indeed. My ex pays maintenance for our dd. And you know what, it doesn't all get spent on tangible 'stuff' for her. I certainly couldn't produce reciepts. It gets spent on rent, bills, days out, food, the same stuff that all my money goes on. Believe it or not, I don't have a seperate account for the maintenance, it gets bunged into the account with the rest. And, thsi will rile you, if I'm able to get a babysitter and the maintenance is in my account, I may even use it for a very rare night out. Flame away.

Oh be careful OP, your wife is not struggling. Is that your problem??

Its not an equal arrangement for the OP either, he wants to bring up his son but only gets to see him every other weekend.

"I think a lot of men are like this when their wives have the audacity to leave them"

What rubbish!!

Who said she left him? Maybe he lift her, maybe it was a mutual agreement that the marriage wasn't working. FFS.

sounds to me like you and your ex need to start from scratch. work out - together how much it costs to care for your son - total costs, that is - heating, clothes, ice-creams, child care etc etc - the lot. Look at the actual experience of the last 2 years.

then work out (again, together) what is a fair division of this cost, taking into account the financial situation of both - and taking into account the best interests of your son (eg the possibility that ex incurrs extra costs for "herself" because she can't move because of his school; and the possibility that looking after ds constrains her ability to earn)

The fact is, that whilst ex is your ex-wife she is not your ex-co-parent. as parents you are in this situation together and if you can operate as a team - and agree the rules - then resentment shouldn't build up. I wouldn;t be as harsh as some of the posters here, but there are bits of your posts that make me think you do need to shift your mind set a bit - to one of team work between equal partners. You only split 2 years ago - it's not long - so you're still feeling your way through.

*ex

Oh he is clearly a Troll. I thought that as soon as I read the OP but he sounds very similar to my ex so I couldn't help but engage.

As in "I just want to support my dc, I don't give f*ck how you manage!". Words straight out or my ex's mouth.

Tax credits pay up to 80% of childcare for lower earners.

Without knowing how much you are paying, and how much your ex-wife's outgoings (in particular housing costs) are, I think it's really difficult to form a judgment as to how reasonable or otherwise you are being.

I think it is implicit in your post that your wife is not currently working (or at least nowhere near to full-time hours)? I think one fundamental which you need to get clear in your own mind is whether, when you think about what is best for your son, you want him to be able to come straight home every day after school rather than going to a childminder or after school club. If so, assuming your wife is willing to be the parent at home, you need to acknowledge that this very significantly affects your ex-wife's ability to undertake paid work, and therefore it is reasonable for your ex-wife to get some compensation for the fact that caring for your son significantly reduces her earning capacity.

As you have your own household, presumably you are in a position to make some sort of reasonable estimate as to what your ex-wife's basic outgoings are (eg mortgage and utility bills). Remember to allow for the fact that the heating and washing machine will be on a lot more in a household with a child compared to a household with one adult working full-time! You could also estimate what the weekly food bill is likely to be. Ditto the costs of running a car or other transport costs. That would allow you to make an estimate of how much of the amount you pay is swallowed up by the basics, which will allow you to make an informed view as to whether what you pay is reasonable bearing in mind that you want the best for your son.

I think the receipts thing is simply impractical. A while back my DH and I tried keeping a record of everything we spent as I couldn't understand where the money was going. The upshot was that we were spending on lots of little things, none of which individually were really unreasonable, but which added up to a lot!

If having done the above exercise you feel aggrieved at what you are paying, I think what would really be best would be to discuss the issue with an independent third party sitting in so that you don't just end up having a blazing row. Might be worth asking Relate, as I believe that their counselling isn't just about keeping relationships together, but they will also provide counselling to help people who have decided to separate to achieve an amicable separation (although don't know whether that covers people who have already been divorced for a couple of years.)

SandyBits

My point being swedes, the money all goes into a collective pot. As long as I can cover the bills at the end of the month (and I can, I know how to budget) I couldn't give a fig where it comes from. In that respect, it's pretty much none of the OPs business what the money gets spent on, providing the child is adequately cared for. And yes, I chose an example likely to provoke. Shoot me. I go out once in a damn blue moon, and frankly couldn't spend all the maintenance money in one night if I tried. I'm a very cheap date lightweight

i wasn't talking about lots of dads wanting their dcs to live with them. i was talking specifically about this dad and the complete and utter tripe he is spewing on here. (see shirleyknots post above) he is not on this planet if he honestly thinks he has his son's best interests at heart. all i am hearing is, "that bitch has the cheek to spend money on herself, well i am not having it, i demand to know exactly where every penny is going.if she had the gall to leave me then she shall suffer the consequences blah blah blah"

and seeing your son every other weekend and buying toys is a whole other world from providing total residential care for him. you twat.

I think you shound very reasonable actually . Am I letting the side down?

Important not to confuse this with gender issues - I think the OP's reference to handbags is a bit unfortunate but clouds the issue. The bare facts are that his payments are to support his son, and there are plenty of thoughtless or even downright unscrupulous folk out there. I don't see why he shouldn't at least wonder if it's being used correctly.

And as Kanye West observed in his incisive social commentary "Gold Digger": "She was supposed to buy ya shorty Tyco with ya money/
She went to the doctor got lipo with ya money."

Disclaimer: I have no clue what Tyco is. Can any of our Transatlantic friends help?

Shound?!?!

I've only had three pints...

DetectivePotato - Of course she left him. That's really what this is all about. He then offered her more money than he needed to pay, that was the big I AM gesture 'Look at me, I am so generous and caring'. She accepts the wonga but maintains her emotional distance from him. And then she goes and gets a new handbag and books a holiday and he's panicking that he really is losing control over this situation. So he wants her punished.

headbanger you are implying that that is what thsi exwife is oding. all we know is that she bought a handbag.

Well, if your son was actually living with you, your expenses related to him would be much greater than your currents payments are. So in that sense, I'm not really sure why you're complaining. I can only imagine that you don't really have any concept of that, and I don't mean that to sound patronising - I'm just wondering if you have actually thought it through.

Plus, the time the two of you both put in to your son is completely unequal. How do you suppose to rectify that, other than helping with monetary contributions?

She is the one doing the vast bulk of actually raising your son - surely that does deserve at least some remuneration?

Tyco is a toy car

agreed sweeedes

SandyBits Of course you should be allowed to go for a night out. My shock emoticon was meant to be funny.

I'm not Booyhoo, I'm just saying that since there are people who are a bit thoughtless with cash, why assume that she isn't?

I ain't implying nuthin'. I just don't immediately think that the man is a dickhead and the woman's a saint.

Thanks Sammy, I can now wig out to that song with more feeling.