Payments to ex wife. Opinions sought.

[TheWaspFactory]

I'm told this is a good place to get opinions. Don't hold back please ladies...

I have a six year old son to my ex wife. We have been separated for about 2 years now and are on cordial, if not friendly terms.

He lives with her and I see him every other weekend.

I currently pay a considerable sum every month to my ex by way of child support. This amount is much more than I would pay through a CSA enforced agreement. I actually suggested this amount as I want the best for my son.

Living and financial arrangements have been agreed between myself and my ex wife informally.

I should point out that I'm by and large happy (well, satisfied maybe) with the concept if not the execution of this plan. Ideally I'd like to have full time residency of my son but my ex wife has made clear she doesn't want this to happen so for the moment, this situation is probably the best for all concerned.

However, I've an issue with the amount I pay and how it is used. I pay this cash for the benefit of my son - not my ex wife. I neither care nor know how she supports herself. The thing is I'm not convinced she is actually spending this cash on my son.

Would I be unreasonable to ask for receipts or some kind of evidence of where my money is going? I appreciate that a significant amount of this is rolled up in to my ex wife's living costs (housing, etc) which can't be separated from supporting my son and to be fair he's not exactly going hungry but I end up buying him most of the stuff I expect my monthly payment to pay for. For example, I end up buying the vast majority of his clothes when he's with me, most of his schooling expenses (trips, uniform, etc) are paid by me, toys - again by me. All the material things end up at my ex's home.

As far as I'm concerned I'm supporting my son - not my ex wife. This money is meant to pay for him, not her handbags and holidays.

I'm tempted to tear up our agreement and go down the official route. As I'm self employed the amount the CSA would specify would be a fraction of what I'm paying now. The balance I could put in to a trust or similar for my son when he's older.

However, before I do this, I thought the receipt idea might be a fair push to actually get wife to spend my money on my son.

Opinions please? I appreciate that this may not be a "popular" post but thought a view from the "other side" might be enlightening...

I am a little cynical. My caring ex husband got married last month but failed to tell our children until a few weeks after the event. He's now waiting for visas for his new wife and her two children to join him. He neglected to mention to his children that he even had a girlfriend so they are a little raw.

em twice the CSA recommendation is 30% is it not? csa recomendation being 15%?

Headbanger - Congratulations.

Sorry to hear that Sweeedes, that is horrible - this guy is not your ex though and, imo, seems to want the best for his son.

yes youre right booyhoo, sorry. Its hard to remember what it should be when your partner pays his ex twice the reccomended amount... and your own ex gives you half the reccomended amount (Grrr emoticon!)

I find it staggering that the majority assumption is always that the father MUST be wrong, controlling, only wanting to make ex wife's life a misery etc.

Sometimes, mothers can, and do, make fathers' lives a misery.

Look at what the OP is paying. A pretty decent amount. And still pays a lot of extras on top. We've been given no info about rents/mortgages, yet everyone assumes that this must swallow up most of the ex's maintenance. Honestly, step back and take a look.

OP pays a reasonable amount. He doesn't think his son is getting the benefit of it, even taking into account living expenses. He is looking for ways to resolve this.

FWIW, OP, dh's ex sounds similar. It was (and is) all about the money for her. Absolutely everything came down to money. She had (step children are adults now, so no longer applies) more income than we did (combination of alimony, maintenance and wages) bit would still insist on dh paying for extras (and we're not talking small extras here - residential school trips abroad, gap year finding, etc) along with telling the children that dh would have to buy any more clothes if they grew as she had bought her share for the year (very helpful when dss was growing an inch a week - at one point he outgrow shoes every month for 6 months. We bought him new ones every time, as ex said she had bought his shoes for the year and was refusing. Dss couldn't even get his feet into them, poor boy)

Well, I'm sure after the initial adjustment of men/women being generous when they split the dust settles and I think it's normal to have a little resentment.

I have some questions.

Did your wife work before/during/after your son was born?

Did she stop to have your son? (this will mean considerable loss of earnings)

Do you pay her more than you would a Nanny for hours that you work? (ie if you paid a Nanny £250 a week to cover your working hours do you pay your ex more)

How much does your son cost you and your wife? I think if money is not an issue you should pay 1/3 of her household living expenses and no more. If you pay for school trips, school fees, clothing etc then I don't see why you should pay more. But only you know if your exes income has suffered by having children and this should come into account, either by way of a lump sum or monthly/weekly payments. How your wife manages money is really none of your business and you would be better off not knowing as long as your son is cared for.

As for access I'm not sure it's enough, perhaps you could housesit a couple of nights a week and do the whole bedtime routine.

Well, actually he is separated, not divorced. I think that mediation-assisted divorce with legal financial settlements all round is the way to go actually. I don't think that informal arrangements are a good thing after the end of a marriage, I think if a marriage is over it needs to be fully over with all the legal bits and bobs sorted out.

It is difficult to get the tone right in an online post especially if you are new to a forum so I will try not to judge.

However, what I will say is that my FIL and MIL are separated, have been for 5 years, after 30 years together, the financial arrangements are informal, FIL is quite "generous" but he has still not sorted out giving MIL all the relevant bank account changes, so she still officially has joint money with him that only he can access, and in practice he only dripfeeds the info. if she e.g. goes out to dinner with him. MIL is getting tired of this and his DC are mightily unimpressed. My judgement in that case is that FIL is rather controlling.

Good god *Sweeeedes, that's rough: no bloody wonder you're cynical. I happen to have been v. lucky, that's all - there might come a time (God forbid obvs.) when I am forced to remove my rose-tinted specs.

Thanks for the congrats. We had a curry to celebrate !

OP seriously?
You would pay a stranger /nanny money to look after your son if you got custody .
A wage to a nanny ,would fund the nannys lifestyle ,that could buy her (or him ) handbags and holidays .
But you grudge your ex-wife ...bearing in mind the woman has endured a pregnancy and given birth to your child ... the greatest gift a woman can give a man imo.
Your son is being looked after by his mum, she loves him...but you want receipts to prove what "your" money is being spent on.
Would you require the same from a nanny?
The Maintenence is not "your" money ,btw , its "their" money.

Just to add my opinion more concisely.

If your ex can't or wont work and as a result cant support your child to have a good standard of living on her income (plus 15% from you) then of course you should pay extra in order for your child to be looked after properly.

If she does have enough money herself and is working then the child doesnt need more than 15% especially if you buy his toys/ clothes/ school fees etc.

I fail to see how the extra money is going towards anything other than her lifestyle.

But you cant ask a grown up for receipts!

Just dont give her the money.

FGS

IT IS NONE OF HIS BUSINESS HOW SHE RUNS HER LIFE. IF HE DOESNT LIKE IT GO TO THE CSA.

SHE HAS A RIGHT TO PRIVACY, HE NEEDS TO RESPECT THAT!!!!!!!

Relate do a very good mediation service.

What is the sum of money that you give her? £10/month? £100/month? £1000/month? £10,000/month?

Seems rather relevant to me.

It must be a reasonable amount if he'd be better off or the same paying a full-time nanny surely?

paying for even

drloves - I splutter my coffee back at you. Yes giving birth is pretty awesome.. but it doesnt earn you a paycheck for the rest of your life.. its 9 months.. And its not his fault that she was the one with the fanjo.

And plenty of us pay 'a stranger' to look after our kids. Including OPs ex wife as she works too he has said.

maintenance isnt OPs money youre right... but tis not 'theirs' it his son's money... the ex just gets it because she is the adult. It is not there to fund her and her son it is there to fund her son. She, as an adult, can fund herself.

If you cannot come to an agreement with your ex then it would probably be best to go down the CSA route and put the rest of the money in a trust fund for your son.

OP if you are still married ,then you should be paying spousal maintenence as well , because you ex has your child living mostly with her ....which makes the whole post rather pointless imo.
Is your name Ebbinezzer ? ..FFS 30% isnt really that much..

But how do you suggest the money gets divvied up? I have one account for everything. Suggesting maintenance gets spent tangibly solely on the ds just doesn't happen in the real world. Not least beacuse, liek shiney, I have 2 dc by 2 ex partners. One gives me maintenance. The other doesn't. So the maintenance for one gets spent on both. No, it's not meant to work like that, but what would you have me do? But this isn't about me.
OP, how do you know her handbags aren't from charity shops and her holidays from the Sun?

and anyway drloves the kid is 6 so even if OPs ex didnt work she still wouldnt be looking after the child for most of the day as he's at school.

The nanny bit seems to have been misconstrued. I'm self employed so if I ever were fortunate enough to be able to look after him more then I would be able manage my work around him. Certainly there would be an element of care that would have to be provided by a child minder or similar but it would by no means be a full time nanny - apologies for implying that would be the case. However that's irrelevant anyway as its not going to happen (at least not anytime soon unfortunately).

My view is that the money I pay is to give my son the best start in life possible - not as a supplement to my wife's income. Sorry but that's what I think. I make no apologies for that.

I want to ensure that my money is being spent wisely - I think I am entitled to that. I just want to know the best way to do this.

Your replies have provided me with much food for thought. Thank you all.

Though I must say, some of you have some sizeable chips on your shoulders...

Nothing like the size of the one on yours OP,
Honestly what did you expect?????

BTW once you pay it over it isnt your money anymore

I'm sure it's nothing compared to the ex-wife-sized chip you have on yours