AIBU to think some people's sense of entitlement is unbelieveable!

[Starbuck999]

Was at a friends' house for coffee arlier today. One of her friends was also there who I have met before but only on a few occasions.

Normal gossip; home, partners, kids, work etc. Friends' friend (let's call her X) says she can't believe income support is changing so that those with kids aged 7+ will no longer be excluded from having to look for work. (I know it's been lowered to the age of 10, but she's heard it's going down to the age of 7). She has a son who is 8 at the moment and she was genuinely disgusted at the thought of having to now look for work. She was saying how difficult it is to raise a child alone, clean, cook and work(she is a single parent) and how there aren't many well paid jobs at the moment, not many that fit in perfectly with school hours etc.

It annoyed me. I too am a single parent with a 6 yr old dd. I work full time and have done so since dd was 2. It IS hard work, I AM shattered, I have HAD to arrange childcare, JUGGLE my working hours and homelife etc - but I feel glad that I am working to provide for my daughter. I explained to her that it isn't easy but it is very much possible for almost everyone, exceptional circumstances omitted of course. I told her she wouldn't have to work full time, would get tax credits and help with childcare costs etc if she works just 16 hrs a week. "Well then what's the point" X then said "I'd be no better off" I didn't have the patience or the time to explain to her that the point is she would be working and not relying on benefits to pay for her and her child. That working shouldn't be an option, benefits should be there as a last resort, not an easy one.

This isn't a bash at those on benefits (been there before) or single parents (I am one) more a little whinge about the rubbish attitude of some people.

So, AIBU to think that she (with one school age child) has no reason not to work?

YANBU.

Well then what's the point" X then said "I'd be no better off"

That's the attitude of so so many people I find. They miss the fact that other people are paying for their life style, other people like you and me and that is not fair.

I have a friend who constantly moans about skint she is, and I mean constantly. She has far, far more disposable income than us (not just from benefits admittedly, her family give her bits here and there) and dh works (I dont). She seems to think someone somewhere should be funding foreign holidays each year etc and any money worries she has are unfair. I try and explain most people have money worries, she doesnt get it.

YADNBU she's obviously pissed off that her gravy boat is running out of ummm, well gravy

YANBU - there are an awful lot of those types around. Gives the genuine people who are desperate to get back into work a bad name.

Ane even if she thought about it, did she really have to talk about it, was she expecting you to give her some sympathy

YANBU!! I used to see this attitude every day when I worked in Benefits. Its amazing what people think is their god given right, the worst offenders were pensioners to be honest!

Its a sad part of our society that some people have this mentality, I was brought up that working for a living and providing for your family equaled pride and satisfaction that you could be self-sufficient. Benefits should be there for people whom really need it be it a disability or current bad circumstances, they should not be seen as a right. Your friends friend is nothing but a scrounger in my opinion!

YANBU
I am a single mother to a 2 yr old and a 8 month old, work part time and am doing an apprenticeship at college. Absolutely no reason why she shouldn't work like theh rest of us. I don't HAVE to work, but I wouldn't be able to provide as much for my girls if I didn't, and its so much better not be be reliant on benefits that can be cut/removed.

YANBU in these circumstances. However, she just sounds like she's lazy and you get people like here in all walks of life. It's not the preserve of those on IS.

Though, maybe she's just nervous about change. Maybe she's hasn't worked for a long time (or ever) and will need a bit of coaxing to be confident about entering the workplace.

The age is actually being lowered to 5.

I was bought up with my mum saying, if you can't afford it, you can't have it etc.
I was earning my own money ( never had pocket money ) from 11 doing a paper round and babysitting etc.
we can't afford a holiday for the next few years so were not going.
why can't people just make do and cut back???
Ive never understood why people think they need all this 'stuff' and would rather get into debt than go without for a while.

YADNBU

I can see that she might be stressing about it, getting back into work when you've been out of it for a while is scary, and the logistics of sorting out childcare, school runs etc can seem overwhelming especially when you have never had to consider it before. But that's no excuse not to do something about it and to think she shouldn't have to work imo.

(from a fellow single mum currently on benefits)

I am not entirely sure I agree.

first of all, as you point out there are exceptional circumstances. I was completely anti-benefits until recently when a good friend of mine had to start relying on them. Said friend worked every day of her life for 16 years. She was only bargaining for one child but ended up with twins, which is more than she can cope with. She has fallen on hard times. As a taxpayer I can't begrudge her decision to stay at home and look after her children.

Also, bringing up your own children, I believe, is a valid choice and I do think that women should have the option of doing it themselves. As you also point out - someone has to do it.

Really expat, well it makes sense, as that's the compulsary age for full time education I guess. I did wonder why it was 7 as it's seemed like a random age to pick.

To be fair I think X assumed I didn't work as I'm often round my friends during school hours on weekdays. But that's only 'cause some weeks I work 72hrs a wk and then have 7 full days off every 4 weeks. Had she known I worked I'm sure she wouldn't have moaned about it.

Yes expat that's what I thought, though tbh I just shrugged when I heard that because I am intending to look for work by the time my youngest reaches that age anyway.

Oh dear. Am I the only person that thinks YAB a little U.

'Ive never understood why people think they need all this 'stuff' and would rather get into debt than go without for a while.'

Because everyone in debt is in that situation because of being 'stuff', not for reasons of say, paying for electricity (I guess you should just go without that then, since you can't 'afford' it), divorce, education, food even.

Thing is, the people will be moved to JSA, which is a bit less money. They won't have to get a job necessarily, but prove they are looking for one, go to work placements, etc.

It's a drive to move more people onto JSA, which pays less than ESA and IS, and then drop their housing benefit by 10% after 12 months, so the government kills two birds with one stone, so to speak.

Ali - How old are your friends DT? I agree that women should have the choice to stay at home and look after their children if they can afford to, but there is no reason why OP's friend cannot work while her DS is at school.

Ali - I do think your friend has every right to claim benefits whilst her children are young, of course, she has worked all these years and deserves to be able to spend the time with them whilst they are babies. But the age is only being lowered to 5/7, so why on Earth shouldn't she be working at least 16 hrs a week once they are in school 6hrs a day 5 days a week?

As I said I get 7 days off every 4 weeks and to be honest I'm often trying to think of things to do to keep budy whilst dd is at school. Most of my friends work so I spend the first day catching up with housework then drink tea, shopping etc. What do people who don't work and are not looking for work actually do all day every day when they have only 1 child who is at school full time?!! Presumably they don't have loads of spare cash if on benefits so no nice trips out or shopping etc... I'd be bored stiff!

Ali I agree that bringing up your own children is a valid choice, and that is why I am, whilst not exactly happy, ok about being on benefits at the moment (mine are both preschoolers). But once the dc are at school I see no reason not to look for at least part time work and would feel guilty to be still relying 100% on benefits.

Ottmum, there are tens of thousands of people in debt, not because they were reckless and wanted 'stuff' but because they wanted to eat or send their kids to school in uniform. The irony is that a majority of these people are actually working poor rather than those on benefits.

We have a tendancy to overlook the working poor in this country. It's like we don't know what to do about them. We can't be scornful because they're not on benefits so we just ignore. Off topic I know but a valid point, I feel.

Well Expat, i can only see that as a good thing. It's encouraging people with school aged children to get back to work isn't it? Sending them on work placements and expecting them to prove they have been looking for work may make people who don't actually want to work think may as well get a job that pays me if I just have to keep going on placements and courses anyway.

I'd move the age down to 18 months max.

'Women should have the choice to stay home'

Yes. The choice, not the right to be paid to stay home.

If the government helps with child care, (not hot on all this) but if they do then I agree Narky that they should not be paid to stay at home.

Maybe someone can explain the childcare bit to me, but I know something that a friend of mine has with tax credits and works, that she is given extra for the childcare because she is working.? Is that right? If so, then surely there is no reason why people cannot go back to work earlier, just as employees maternity leave ends after a year or whatever. They do not have the privilidge to be paid to stop at home.
(probably got this all wrong!)

'The irony is that a majority of these people are actually working poor rather than those on benefits.'

Like us, onesock! Oh, yes, this dodgy flat is teeming with 'stuff'. We don't even have carpets.

A number of people have debts, too, from failed businesses.

Narky - I totally agree. Being able to be a SAHM is not a right to be funded by the rest of the nation, if people cannot afford to have children then they shouldn't have them. Unitl about a year ago I didn't realise you could stay off work for so long and get IS, don't quite understand why it is like this tbh.

RedArseBaboon - If you get working tax credit then they will pay up to 80% of your childcare.