AIBU to think some people's sense of entitlement is unbelieveable!

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Was at a friends' house for coffee arlier today. One of her friends was also there who I have met before but only on a few occasions.

Normal gossip; home, partners, kids, work etc. Friends' friend (let's call her X) says she can't believe income support is changing so that those with kids aged 7+ will no longer be excluded from having to look for work. (I know it's been lowered to the age of 10, but she's heard it's going down to the age of 7). She has a son who is 8 at the moment and she was genuinely disgusted at the thought of having to now look for work. She was saying how difficult it is to raise a child alone, clean, cook and work(she is a single parent) and how there aren't many well paid jobs at the moment, not many that fit in perfectly with school hours etc.

It annoyed me. I too am a single parent with a 6 yr old dd. I work full time and have done so since dd was 2. It IS hard work, I AM shattered, I have HAD to arrange childcare, JUGGLE my working hours and homelife etc - but I feel glad that I am working to provide for my daughter. I explained to her that it isn't easy but it is very much possible for almost everyone, exceptional circumstances omitted of course. I told her she wouldn't have to work full time, would get tax credits and help with childcare costs etc if she works just 16 hrs a week. "Well then what's the point" X then said "I'd be no better off" I didn't have the patience or the time to explain to her that the point is she would be working and not relying on benefits to pay for her and her child. That working shouldn't be an option, benefits should be there as a last resort, not an easy one.

This isn't a bash at those on benefits (been there before) or single parents (I am one) more a little whinge about the rubbish attitude of some people.

So, AIBU to think that she (with one school age child) has no reason not to work?

the difference SanctiMoany is that you are willing to, and looking for, work. A lot of people simply can't be arsed and would rather not go to the trouble of working.

Milady shifts are ahrd I think.

Dh adn I used to work around each other until his boss started wanting him to work extra bits here and there; him losing his job was worse financially than me so I ahd to leave (and I bloody loved that job- evening admin in a busy FE college- reception etc). Luckily I found other work and in fact held both for a short time but that was before the recession.

I work shifts. I am at night, dh in the day. I have to stay awake in order to do the school runs and all the usual day to day running around, and have to manage kipping inbetween. That is the way it has been all along since my first child was 6 months old. Almost 16 now.
As far as I am concerned, I have no other option. I have chosen this way of life and would never expect anyone else to pay for it.

Oh grapes I know what the differences are; and in fact I don't feel bad anyway- I work more hours as a carer anyhow than most people do in a week (sadly) so don't feel bad at all.

But people who don't know our story use negative info they have to build assumpotions: like the tosserrs who sued to give DH abuse for shopping on a Wednesday afternoon thinking he was a slacker when in fact he worked 12 hour night shifts.

No good ever comes of giving those people fuel for their stereotypes IMO. They have the power to make people's lives very sad. I remember relating this on MN before but when I went to get my eyes tested just after DH's redundancy (is working but very low income) the aldy asked my last appt and I coudln't remember if it was 18 months or two eyars but I knew I needed new glasses as my vision had changed; she gave me a right telling off about how the state coudn't be expected to pay for new pairs every few months so if my eyes hadn't changed I woudl have to pay and lump it- at which point I pointed out we'd never claimed frree tests / glasses before and she kinda apoplogised but I was very badly shaken (bad luck doesn't = no work ethic after all!) and it did badly affect me.

I am looking for work right now but am also aware that even if I found it I'd probably lose it quickly- atm I need 2 days off a week for appointments for the boys for a start. Again outsode my control (DH isn't slacking, there are solid reasons he can't cover the appts and does when he can IYSWIM). OTOH I do hope DH's and my combined 40 years of paying NI and tax before claiming count for soemthing too!

It is commonplace to do it this way too. I am lucky actually as a couple of my colleagues have to do a couple of cleaning jobs in between the school runs and sleep, before the next night shift.

Still hard on you redbaboon; Dh used to do nights and in the end it did his health no good whatsoever and the GP was always begging him to pack it in (he didn't though)

The reason I ahd to pack it in with DH's hours was simple: we both wprked 30 miles in opposite directions from each other and when his work satrted to clash with mine we couldn't share teh car and we had no buses we could catch (hardly surprising, DH was hopping across the border at 3 am LOL). Shifts can throw up additional difficulties that make the other little biits too hard or just difficult I think.

Yes, I agree with you there Sanc

YABU
Single mothers need all the help they can get from the gov. It's not about the 'choice' to SAH; it's about the government making a decision to support mothers. Or not, as the case may be.

There you go then RAB, shifts are manageable when you have a partner. My parents did it and lots of my friends and relatives do mainly because they are lucky enough to have been given mortgages.

Lone parents very rarely have the options that couples do. I'm married now but had to sell my house when my first husband refused point blank to work OR look after DD.

I didn't even know for ages that I was "allowed" to kick him out, sell up, go on benefits and look after her even though she was a baby. I was told by colleagues that because I had a professional qualification I'd be forced into a placement not of my choosing or have no money at all to live on.

And I did feel a bit at the mothers collecting ten year olds who had been sunbathing all day or mooching around the shops getting bargains when I had to pay the CM after a day's work and stop my cab to shop for essentials in the expensive garage when my daughter was months old.

So I can see both sides.

I know and have known a fair few people who complain/ed about being skint, being in debt etc, whilst they are trying on clothes at < insert expensive clothes store > or have just come back from the maldives etc
a few of them have since known what being poor actually is.
i grew up poor, and i don't mean not being able to go to the zoo or swimming lessons or having just squash with my dinner.
more often than i care to remember we had no dinner, no hot ( or even lukewarm ) baths, nothing, we didn't have a single god dam thing.
not even a gravy boat :D

Yes, well, I know a fair few people in debt, too, and not a one from expensive clothes and holidays. One from a failed business, another from a divorce, another from treatments for her disabled child not covered by NHS, others from losing their jobs and being on JSA (contribution-based, she got a job before that ran out) and waiting for housing benefit to get sorted out, etc.

Not read all the posts.

I currently claim CTC/WTC and work part time. I will work and increase my hours as I am able, as will DH to get ourselves to the point where we will earn enough to stop needing them. I don't care if it is only 1 penny more than the benefits I get right now. It will be our money.

Benefit are vital for helping people. But only when it is not possible for them to do it themselves. Most people I know on benefits would prefer not to be in that position and work towards a time when they won't be, nothing wrong with that. But the attitude of the person you are talking about, that is not a healthy one, not just for the fact she is not earning her own money, but that she sees no point in it, has no personal pride in providing for her family, when she is able to.

well obviously expat those are unfortunate circumstances that cannot be helped, ( rationaly i wasn't including aminities in 'stuff' )
The OP mentioned this womam 'X' who i feel falls into the catagory of the previous set of people im talking about.
she has had a misfortune thrusted upon her out of the blue, she can work and should work if possible.
even if its pt at the weekend.

she hasnt*

Sakura - Yes the government should be helping single mothers - to get back to work, to help them get on their feet with the childcare element, but you see I say 'to get them back into work' because they need to provide for their own families eventually, to feel good about themselves that they are providing for their children, not expecting others to do it for them, even if only on part time work.

Sakura - why should single mothers be able to stay at home at the expense of everyone else, but not mothers who have a partner??

You know, I'm not sure it is a valid lifestyle choice to be a SAHM (as was mentioned earlier) if you cannot afford it.

I agree with support until the child is 5yrs but surely after that it's a luxury?

I mean if money was no consideration I'd probably have had 6 kids and started at 25. But as it was, there was no way we could support ourselves and a child without financial support at that point so we didn't do it. I wanted to SAH, therefore that meant waiting until I was well into my 30s before we had kids. I'm amazed that more people don't see it this way. Why not save for a baby just as you would a holiday. So you're 22 and you want a baby-save for 6yrs until you know you can afford it and pay for it yourself.

Where i am from its a career choice for school girls to get pregnant, for this area its not 'getting single mothers back to work' its getting them to work in the first place!

I know ill be flamed for that but im from brownhills originally, if anyone has been near the 'comp' they will understand

I would move the age down to 1 year or maybe 18 months and provide 16 hours of nursery care or childcare tax credit etc to cover it.

Working mothers can take a year of maternity leave so a year had a certain symmetry.

I agree onesock, if you can't afford something then you don't get it. I would love to be able to go on holiday a couple of times a year, but I can't afford to so I don't go, I don't expect someone else to pay for it!

Oh fgs these "sense of entitlement" threads are always vengeful bullshit

Just get on with your own life and stop curtain twitching.

YANBU but unfortunatley she probably would be worse off finacially working, This is not me saying i agree with her at all i would rather work for slightly less knowing i ave worked for it than get more and do nothing for it.

DP has just extended his working hours from 2 week to 50 and we are going to be substantialy worse off each month beacuse were not getting WTC or Housing or Council Tax benifit but at least he is working hard for our family.

What is YAMBU Short for ?????

i am lucky enough to have a dh in a good full time job. i used to work, then was made redundant about 5 years ago. we are now less well off but okay as i work in a supermarket filled with mums with young kids who do 12-20 hours a week that can be worked around childcare arrangements etc.

its hard to find a job in this climate, but they are out there, do not give up hope

I don't think that giving extra help to single mothers is OTT. I don't think the vast majority of them were aiming to raise a child alone. Relationships fail, partners walk out, people get sick and die. Anyone of us in a relationship could find ourselves in that situation overnight.

I do think that if you contribute DNA you share financial responsibility, and the garnishing of wages- taking child support out with the PAYE- should be used more when people have walked away from paying their share.

Even with that though, cash doesn't equal another adult ready to provide child care, so I think it's reasonable to provide extra childcare help to families where only one adult can care for the children.