AIBU to think some people's sense of entitlement is unbelieveable!

[Starbuck999]

Was at a friends' house for coffee arlier today. One of her friends was also there who I have met before but only on a few occasions.

Normal gossip; home, partners, kids, work etc. Friends' friend (let's call her X) says she can't believe income support is changing so that those with kids aged 7+ will no longer be excluded from having to look for work. (I know it's been lowered to the age of 10, but she's heard it's going down to the age of 7). She has a son who is 8 at the moment and she was genuinely disgusted at the thought of having to now look for work. She was saying how difficult it is to raise a child alone, clean, cook and work(she is a single parent) and how there aren't many well paid jobs at the moment, not many that fit in perfectly with school hours etc.

It annoyed me. I too am a single parent with a 6 yr old dd. I work full time and have done so since dd was 2. It IS hard work, I AM shattered, I have HAD to arrange childcare, JUGGLE my working hours and homelife etc - but I feel glad that I am working to provide for my daughter. I explained to her that it isn't easy but it is very much possible for almost everyone, exceptional circumstances omitted of course. I told her she wouldn't have to work full time, would get tax credits and help with childcare costs etc if she works just 16 hrs a week. "Well then what's the point" X then said "I'd be no better off" I didn't have the patience or the time to explain to her that the point is she would be working and not relying on benefits to pay for her and her child. That working shouldn't be an option, benefits should be there as a last resort, not an easy one.

This isn't a bash at those on benefits (been there before) or single parents (I am one) more a little whinge about the rubbish attitude of some people.

So, AIBU to think that she (with one school age child) has no reason not to work?

I agree with Narky and MumNWLondon on this one.

It's not right that some mums have no choice but to go to work when their child is 12 months, whilst others are paid to stay at home until 5?

There's probably lots of mums that would love to stay at home but simply can't afford to. Why should others think it's their right??

YANBU

I have neighbors who's sense of entitlement is disgusting really. They do absolutely nothing for society but expect the state to fund their meaningless lives.

Yanbu

Once upon a time, back in the old days...... People saved to get married, saved for a house, planned a family and then stayed together, through thick and thin, and the DH worked to support his family............

I ended up a single parent with a 3 & 5 year old but my Ex h has supported his children for the last 15 years and I became self emploed and earn good money. So sometimes, even if it all goes tits up you can manage without benefits.

If we didn't throw benefits at pregnant teens then some might actually avail themselves of the free contraception. My DC's are now 18 & 20 and so many of their former schoolmates are going down this route.

2old4 loads of mys choolfriends follwoed the route of which you speak, they satrted at about 14

But a lot of us didn't; many of those who didn't have become single aprents since though- like my mate who is a single aprent becuase she found out her DH was invovled in a sex trafficking ring and going down for it.

TBH, id on't have half as much of a problem with supporting SAHP's of under 5's as I do with the absent parents who just walk away and refuse to take financial repsonsibility; if we are going to stop benefits I'd be going for the absent aprent first every time.

Only when that has been done will start to worry about what % of 'my taxes' (our taxes) are going to be spent on the people whoa re actually still contributing to society, albeit in a non taxable manner.

I am not vengeful Greensleeves, i wasn't curtain twitching - this woman said all this right to my face... how could I not say anything when my circumstances appear to be very similar to hers and i had just worked a 72 hr week whilst she sat there and moaned it was too difficult to get a job.

Santimonay - You are a carer so your circumstances are different, clearly you have certain hours and days you can work.

In general though... there are plenty of part time jobs for parents with kids - I hear time and time again people say "oh but I can't get a 9.30-2.30 term time only job, they are few and far between" OF COURSE THEY ARE, so do what everyone (myself included does, work nights, get a childminder, use local day schemes for summer holidays ask grandparents and friends to babysit for odd hours, get a nanny, use the before and after school clubs (people get up to 80% of childcare FREE if on a low wage!) put yourself out and remember you chose to have children of course it's harder to work around kids than it would be if you didn't have them. Some days I get up at 7am, take dd to school, come home and sleep for a few hours, then leave for work at 5pm - work a 12 hr shift from 7pm til 7am, go straight to my mothers,and collect dd to take her to school, go home and tidy up then sleep again before the next night shift. Millions of people do it, it's definitely not impossible.

I just think it would be hard to adjust the attitudes of people already enjoying 'the Jeremy Kyle lifestyle'. Probably better to tackle the problem at the root.

I know shit happens - it did to me. But I didn't choose to have a baby with someone I just met......I know an 18 year old who got pregnant with twins when her baby was 8 weeks old. But that's a whole other disaster story!

I DO think that people should at least be doing voluntary work if their children are school age (presuming 'normal' circumstances). Around here there's a certain crowd who have a lovely suntan by the end of the summer......

I think more people would prosper in the long run if they thought more about the 'I'm no better off working' argument.

Working at one job is the only way to get a better job. It isn't all about immediate money and income, but also about promotion, experience, the 'pulling power' on your CV to stand a better chance of jobs that suit you etc etc.

I agree with the OP about making it work. I have worked weekends for 15 years and don't have a social life.

People only focus on complaining about the lack of suitable jobs, rather than looking at ways of making money. There are many ways to become self employed which makes it a little easier to choose your hours. And I've survived the recession so far.

Was that me complaining about teh lack of suitable jobs 2old? I feel no guilt for that.

AFAIK the rule about kids being 5 or over will be in soon so parents of school age kids will fall under the work for benefits stuff anyway won't they? As indeed they should.

I agree BLU even voluntary work looks better than nothing on a CV and can leed to employment. But you've still somehow got to get people to get past the 'I'm no better off attitude'

In parts of America I believe benefits can only be claimed for a certain amount of years in anyone's lifetime, as little as 2 years, I believe. If this was the case here then claiming benefit would on be a last resort.

NO Sanctimoany - just what Starbuck said above - we know your situation is different.

Somehow we need a system that helps the carers but not those who can't be arsed.

I work in retail 20 hours a week and as a single mum get most of my childcare paid for DD (2.10) paid for me. When she starts school I want increase my hours aleast 30 if not full time but right now its hard because although both me and DD would be fine with me working those hours my bosses are not as due to having a young child I am " not reliable enough"

It irritates me that so many people (not just single mums) expect to get a free ride- there is no such thing as a free ride for a start. Someone's gotta pay for it.

Oh and why I don't feel guilt (shouldn;t try to baitr arguments when toired, sorry)

DH- made redundant twice in last few years; last time was because company chose to diversify into another market so was moving. At the same time the three other same field employers merged s the market became flooded with good skilled people same as DH.

SO DH started up a business (techinically he'd ahd one for ages but really satrted toi try and make money from it) and also returned to Uni to get the quals to take the business on professionally (you know the lights effects on things like X Factor? That sort of thing).

So he's working hard and studying hard getting grades including 100% of which I am very proud.

I'd like a job even though I have no idea how I would manage it (students don't get time off gor appointments unfortunately and DH's Uni really strict over that sort fo thing)but it ahs to work with the boys; I also have no idea how I would cope with the tiredness of being up all night then working on top. Not one family member or friend who can help, ever (all live too far way)

So am not of the sit back and wait for it to happen ilk at all but equally don't like to box people as 'bad' automatically.

i think yABU. you manged to find a job you could do, however not everyone can,

women with small children are the most discriminated against group in the workplace - for unsupported single mothers to get work and profit from it (especially those with low earning potential) can be very hard indeed.

the situation where two women can be paid effectively by the state for caring for each others children, but not their own - is a real one. (think, if i and the lady down the road as ofsted registered childminders change cheques for the same amount each week to care for each others kids, we are keeping only the £150 childcare sub from the govt (and presumably claiming the 30-hour element of WTC also) - if we looked after our own kids that would be fraud..)

looking after children is a job. someone has to do it - why not the mother?

X posts

Who irritates you prozacfairy? If it's the I an't see why I should ahve to make an effort brigade then I doubt yoou'll find many people to disagreee with you

EnglandAllenPoe - Yes I managed to find a job, but it wasn't easy. i have worked since dd was 2, struggled to work, so that i have managed to get better jobs as the years have gone by.

You mention about single mothers findnig it hard to get work. YES of course, lts of my mates are single parents (mums and dads) and they all do work of some sort. Childcare is practically free (80% paid for) if on a low wage and there are SO many options available even to those with no support. If I didn't have my job i would rather work for minimum wage doing something boring and unglamourous (and have before many times) than claim benefits. There are plenty of minimum wage jobs available, it's just mnay single parents think like you do and the key word you used in your post was "profilt" for "single mothers to get work and profit from it". Working needs to be a must not an option, benefits should be the very last option as an emergency helping hand.

You are confusing the whole Ofsted childminder and paying childcare fees thing. You scenario would not work as if two women were to look after each others children and go through the long process of becoming a registered childminder then they may as well use the opportunity to make a proper business from it and get other children to mind as well, hey presto - working mothers now! The free childcare provided by the government is to help get parents back into the workplace, not to pay them to sit at home during the time their kids are at school - that's 30 hrs a week of time they could be working! Of cours elooking after children is a job and a parent is, in an ideal world the best person to do it, but when we have kids we accept it's an unpaid role and if we want to feed and clothe those children we have to work to be able to afford to...

EnglandAllenPoe 'looking after children is a job. someone has to do it - why not the mother?' I don't disagree with that.

However when the children are at school full time should said mum still not work? Why should the state pay for her to stay at home and clean her house, watch Jeremy Kyle or get a suntan??

I don't think it matters if it's 16 hrs a week voluntary work/ educational courses. It's just about putting in the effort. It would also give people much more chance of getting better paid, more full time work when their children are older.

It must be bloody difficult to go back after 5 years plus away from work. Even part time charity work would provide recent reference and prove reliability to future employers.

I think a lot of young mothers in particular are failed by a system that expects them to just sit back and claim. Just because they had children young doesn't mean they can't gain (extra) qualifications afterwards if they are given childcare support and encouragement.

But it all comes down to the same old question which is why do people not wait until they are in a good position financially before having children?

Yes, I know accidents happen but single accidental pregnancies do not account for all parents at home on benefits.

Yes, people find themselves widowed but when you have children you make sure you have provision in place for that, don't you?

As I said earlier, I would happily have started having kids at 25 had finances allowed. But student debt etc meant it wasn't possible to do it without relying on help. Therefore I waited until I was 35 because that's how long it took. It's simple, surely?

What I mean is, if you want a baby but aren't in a position financially, why wouldn't you set up a savings account, go without holidays, take on a second job etc so that 5yrs down the line you can do it without expecting someone else to pay.

Also - Open ?university is free to people on income support or a low wage (under 20k I believe) they have hundreds of courses.. why do more single parents not do OU courses whilst thye are looking for work for whilst their kids are at school. One of the courses I did with the OU was only about 8 hrs a week, can even be done whilst the kids are in bed!

archstanton - the reason is simple: because the taxpayers pay for them to have children. Wrong I know, but the only people who can change that are the government, and the people who have children when they are not in a position to pay for them. As with everything else, if you can't afford it, don't do it!

It will all end in tears you know because these women who will be working will have the audacity to expect a pension in the future ,thus ruining our economy

thesecondcoming 'there.aren't.any.jobs'

See my point earlier about becoming self employed............