AIBU to think some people's sense of entitlement is unbelieveable!

[Starbuck999]

Was at a friends' house for coffee arlier today. One of her friends was also there who I have met before but only on a few occasions.

Normal gossip; home, partners, kids, work etc. Friends' friend (let's call her X) says she can't believe income support is changing so that those with kids aged 7+ will no longer be excluded from having to look for work. (I know it's been lowered to the age of 10, but she's heard it's going down to the age of 7). She has a son who is 8 at the moment and she was genuinely disgusted at the thought of having to now look for work. She was saying how difficult it is to raise a child alone, clean, cook and work(she is a single parent) and how there aren't many well paid jobs at the moment, not many that fit in perfectly with school hours etc.

It annoyed me. I too am a single parent with a 6 yr old dd. I work full time and have done so since dd was 2. It IS hard work, I AM shattered, I have HAD to arrange childcare, JUGGLE my working hours and homelife etc - but I feel glad that I am working to provide for my daughter. I explained to her that it isn't easy but it is very much possible for almost everyone, exceptional circumstances omitted of course. I told her she wouldn't have to work full time, would get tax credits and help with childcare costs etc if she works just 16 hrs a week. "Well then what's the point" X then said "I'd be no better off" I didn't have the patience or the time to explain to her that the point is she would be working and not relying on benefits to pay for her and her child. That working shouldn't be an option, benefits should be there as a last resort, not an easy one.

This isn't a bash at those on benefits (been there before) or single parents (I am one) more a little whinge about the rubbish attitude of some people.

So, AIBU to think that she (with one school age child) has no reason not to work?

YANBU - I cannot bear this entitlement culture....

YANBU. Lots of people have the same sense of entitlement and its what the Government is trying to change.

I think age 5 is still too long, most mothers get a years maternity leave but its a step in the right direction.

People need to take responsibility for themselves an any children they have regardless of circumstances changing. The usual "its too hard to work and have children, why would I work when benefits pay the same, I can only work 10-2 term time only, I wont use childcare" etc gets trotted out by many whilst millions in the same situation work and raise children whilst their taxes pay for those that choose not to work.

Single mothers are the easy targets again...agree with thesecondcoming ..There are no jobs ..you think its easy getting a job in tesco? try it ..you will be one of 200 applicants ..a recent catering assistant job at our local university had over a hundred applicants ..see not so easy is it

Let's face it, the entitlement attitude was the same before the recession. Something should have been done about it when the country was booming but Labour didn't want to make potentially vote losing decisions.

I think people are forgetting that if the only people having children were those who could afford it, society would collapse inwards within two generations. Society has always needed 'the poor' to reproduce at a greater rate than the middle or upper classes. "Don't have children unless you can afford it" is a fatuous argument IMO.

I'd also like to point out that tax credits do not equal free childcare. Average childcare costs in my area are £35 per day per child. 5 days a week that is £175. Tax credits paying 80% of that means the parent is still paying £35 per week, or roughly £140 per month. When you're on minimum wage, that's a LOT of money to find and is simply prohibitive for many.

Furthermore, professional (e.g. OFSTED registered) childcare is NOT flexible. There are waiting lists of 3 months minimum for most good (note 'good' not 'outstanding' CMs and nurseries, and if you wish to change hours/days, often 6-8 weeks notice is required. Add to this that more than half CMs will not cover school holidays or shift patterns, and most nurseries are not open before 8am or after 6pm, and it doesn't leave a lot of choice. Many people do not have extended family or friends available to help out either.

I think it is important to remember that raising children - which society FUNDAMENTALLY needs in order to perpetuate itself ? is an important, undervalued role. For every top-earning parent out there, there is another parent or a carer who is looking after his/her children. Without the army of child carers (usually mothers) in this country, industry and commerce would simply collapse. Why shouldn't the vitally important role of mothering be recognised for what it is?

FWIW, I have no axe to grind. I am a single parent of twins. I left my abusive XP when my twins were 4 months old with literally the clothes we stood in. Despite this, I have only taken 3 months off since having children and I have never relied on benefits in my life. I am under no illusions about why this is, however. The explanation is simple - I have employers who are wonderful and have given me a huge amount of consideration and flexibility. I doubt they are typical, however.

I do not agree that there are no jobs. i have only been in my current job a few months and they are constantly recruiting various posts even now. Some of those posts are lower paid, some minimum wage, some requiring little or no experience.

What get's my goat is the 'I won't be better off if I get a job'

WTF??

Well, there must be shed loads of benefits coming their way if that is the case.

housing benefit
child tax credit
income support
Job seekers allowance
laptops for kids
council tax relief
free school meals
free school trips
free prescriptions
free school trasnport
even help with uniforms
this list is endless

Most of these can and is claimed by many.
Before I am flamed, i know not everyone gets all of this.

yeah I suppose they are right really.
Not many jobs can pay that much.

You forgot the flat screen tv vouchers

Optimist, I wasn't saying only the rich should have children. I was saying that more people should consider saving beforehand to put themselves in a better position financially. Why is that so awful? Why don't people consider forgoing treats and holidays for a few years to build up a pot? I put it off for 10yrs until I was financially able to support myself.

usualsuspect - none of the above are a joke, well not for the people who claim them anyway, maybe for those who work though

very, very few LEAs now give uniform support

I am a single parent, on benefits moving to JSA in October.

I've applied for 20 jobs and not got one interview.

Tesco and Sainsburys aren't hiring atm round here, I can't work shifts or evenings / weekends due to childcare .... I'm applying for every job that is workable within a 40/60 minute commute, over 16 hours so I can get tax credits if the salary is low (I am applying for jobs between 7-19k)

I am not being fussy. I have to be practical. And still, I've not got ONE interview.

out of 20 applications.

it isn't easy - I can see why she's worrying and I do fully sympathise with her.

She may not be entitled to stay at home, but to be forced on to JSA in this climate is scary, to say the least; it's a lot harder to be sympathetic when you're in employment IMO

Revisiting this thread. Have we gotten to the 'There are thousands of jobs out there, it's just that single parents/the unemployed don't want to do them and yet immigrants do' part?

These threads always go the same way.

You could do a pie chart or graph or some research on it.

Starbucks it varies hugely; we're in SE Wales and we're in top three ahrdest hit palces inj UK and really, there are no jobs. Actually there are on the jobcentre walls- adult film extra (is that adult for film extra work, or extra for adults films?!?) and personal trainer: not quite what most people are after

And yes people can set up SE (DH did) but most private or council / HA leases actually ahve clauses preventing people from doing that in their own home, thereby making it tougher for the people who already face the most barriers. I would love to provide SN childcare; if I did I would be evicted.

'Also - Open ?university is free to people on income support or a low wage (under 20k I believe) they have hundreds of courses.. why do more single parents not do OU courses whilst thye are looking for work for whilst their kids are at school. One of the courses I did with the OU was only about 8 hrs a week, can even be done whilst the kids are in bed! '

Depends: I ahve a degree, I looked into TA worrk but needed a level 3 NVQ and garduates not eligible for free training; actually i'd ahve paid but not in place for TA training apaprently.

'Yes people get widowed but' loads fo other things that can happen- eg your child borrn with an SN or you become very ill yourself: I don't know if you know the figures on providing for that oneself but frankly, it's largely undoable. Sadly.

And as for why teh government don;t do something about it- what? Stop the benefits? Starving kids on the streets? yeah that'll teach them alesson for being born won't it? Seriously, find a method that doesn't A)Penalise those who do ahve an accidental pregnancy and wish not to terminate and B) cause difficulties for the children who did not ask to be born and you'll have political gold dust.

Would all those who cannot get a job be willing to do a few hours voluntary work for their benefits?

'housing benefit
child tax credit
income support
Job seekers allowance
laptops for kids
council tax relief
free school meals
free school trips
free prescriptions
free school trasnport
even help with uniforms
this list is endless

Free school trips are not a universal benefit ANYWHERE- at ours chool for example it's pay or don;t play.

laptop forr kids- never met anyone who ever received one of those

We get free prescription / entitled to housing benefit and CTB and dh works; theya ren't universally poor benefits, theya re for low earners too.

CTC- yep for low earners too

Now, maybe if they got rid of teh silly rule that says people on silly low incomes can't get free school meals (eg DH on start up wage in new business of £50 pw didn;t qualify becuase nobody receiving WTC does, ever)- changing that to low income may actually help people move into work, perhaps?

JSA- is what it is, for job seekers

IS- actually people on low wages / low hours not in receipt of TC's (ie under 16 hours) may qualify)

Red doesn;t that avry again on childcare?

And there's an assumption people don't already: I worked as volunteer manager for a well known parenting charity (and a well nown cancer one before that)and most of our volunteers were either on benefits and looking to get experience or pensioners.

Send them to the workhouse and their kids up the chimneys that will sort them ..

Oh I don't have the answer and I'm under no illusions that the market is awash with jobs and the country is full of lazy people just not willing to take them.

I just think that many people could consider waiting and saving before having kids.

US soemone actually genuinely suggested I should be in a workhouse on MN once,. as a carer- would teach people not to have disabled kids apparently (!)

Ah the quotes of Mumsnet past LOL

laptops for kids is a new thing, probably being scrapped - but it's not for everyone; very strict criteria

"Oh fgs these "sense of entitlement" threads are always vengeful bullshit

Just get on with your own life and stop curtain twitching."

Yay!!! Common sense!!! (so rare these days!)

OP, I'm still trying to figure out where you get off lecturing the woman about this. You even admit you don't know her well and "have only met her on a few occasions".. but you presume to know her entire life well enough to make the judgements you made. How smug and condescending! If I were your friend, I certainly wouldn't be inviting you back for coffee any time soon! How incredibly rude to confront another guest! I suggest you focus less on lecturing her about her finances and more on your own manners.

It's cerrtainly not something we get; we're saving up ds1's DLA to get him one for comp at request of SENCO, then savoing fopr one out of whatever we have left after Government has ransacked our DLA (DS1 has an invisible disability, I don't rate our chances regardless of his needs) to get dyspraxic / dyslexic one for comp also.

these are the criteria for a free laptop:

Do I qualify?

Only families receiving certain benefits will be able to use the Home Access scheme. Parents and guardians wishing to apply must be fully responsible for a child in Years 3 - 9, attending a state school in England.

You won't qualify if you have already received support from a similar programme, like Computers for Pupils.

In addition, you'll need to receive at least one of the following benefits:

• Free school meals
• Income-based Jobseeker's Allowance
• Income Support
• Child Tax Credit (and an income of no more than £16,040)
• Guaranteed Pension Credit
• Income-based Employment Support Allowance
• Support under Paty V1 of the Immigration and Asylum Act 1999