Bloody, twatting, (D)F

[Bunnysoprano]

I am absolutely sick to death and need some perspective. However, I should warn you, this is long.....

This weekend, I parked my car in the drive in front of DF's car. We had two sets of keys - DF lost one set but denies it. Usually, I leave my keys in a glass bowl in the hall but, for some reason this weekend, I stuck them in my bag.

Today, I had to leave the house about 5:30am as was travelling for work. Whilst on the train to Glasgow, I got a text from DF saying he couldn't get his car out as I had blocked it in and taken my keys. Naturally (and I do understand this), he was annoyed.

He then got a taxi to and from work today which cost £50. However, he has used the money that I take out each month from our joint account to pay for the cleaner. I am apparently to pay this back as I need to be "punished" (I kid you not!) for what I did today re the car.

I have arrived home this evening at 10:00pm after travelling to and from Glasgow today an d am rather tired. Therefore, I have not taken very kindly to this and am absolutely fuming. Part of the reason is because F is saying that he can't afford to take a taxi to work and back (notwithstanding the fact that he is pretty much a three figure earner). Now, I do accept that it was wasted money due to my mistake but I earn nearly half of what he does. I have just paid nearly £400 for flights this month for us to go to a wedding which has left me very short on the basis that DF would sub me if I needed any money. I trusted him to do this but obviously this isn't happening.

We both put equal amounts in the joint account but just enough to cover the bills so there is no flex. F is making dire threats about not putting money in this month etc if I don't pay for the taxi etc.

I know this all sounds RIDICULOUSLY childish but I have actually had a moment of utter panic and thought that I can't actually marry someone who is going to treat me like this. What if I am off on maternity leave and need "punished"?!?!? Will I get no money.

I am fuming and have actually taken myself off in the spare bedroom to sleep tonight and think about things.

I am quite prepared for a total flaming as I am SO angry I can't think straight but AIBU about this?!?

Just had a thought! Is he jealous of you?

Why don't you put it in writing what your issues with him regards money are?

Bunnysoprano, You need to chill kid. He is really stressing you out. Can't you go and stay with a mate tonight? I would.......

I think I will try and write to him.

I cannot think at all why he would be jealous of me. He has, as he sees it, a better job. It is certainly better paying and better hours etc.

Got to go and pretend I've been busy!! DH home lol

Agree that you need to get it clear in your head about what the issues are. Write it all down to help. Re-read this thread and look at the issues raised that people have given good advice on.

You need to be clear and calm in order to express your point of view. You are in no state to do this today. If he starts shouting and behaving unreasonably, walk away, get in the car, go to a friend's.

Any chance this has on being resolved requires a civil conversation. Is there a better time to have this conversation? Or does it feel that there's no chance at all?

Are you highly strung? Or are you just reacting to his difficult behaviours.

My ex in laws all thought I was a nutter because obviously we didn't go shouting about the difficulties in the marriage but they were so bad that I was constantly on edge, so when they saw me going off the deep end because of something minor they didn't know that the most awful things had been going on in private.

This man is a bully, financial and otherwise and has been for a while it seems, he has finally crossed the line by verbalising the word "punish" but I think he has actually been doing it for a long time, but using that word has made you see how wrong his behaviour is.

So you're too scared to talk to him 'cos you think he's going to shout at you and insult you. Why are you with him?

I would leave him a note along the lines of you are staying with a friend for a few days to get some space to think, as this row has thrown up some serious issues that are making you question whether marrying him is a good idea.

Then go and get the space you need, and talk to him next week when you've had some time to reflect. Crucially, he will have to see that you are deadly serious, and perhaps realise that he is going to have to react in a rather more constructive way than just shouting.

BTW your engagement ring it yours, you don't have to give it back but it could be useful leveredge to get the full £40k back out of the property you've bought together!

The 'highly personal insults' are not acceptable. He deliberately wants to make you feel like shit. Not the behaviour of a nice man.

OK Bunny, I'm going to deviate slightly from the others here. I agree his behaviour is very bad and needs working on.

But it also strikes me you have only been engaged for 6 weeks.

Some people live together and know it is permanent, others only know it is once they've popped the question... my DH and I were in the latter category, and there was a lot of reappraising of things like how we did the money once it was clear we were together forever.

This is an excellent time for you to have it out with him. If he can't get his head around the idea that you're one unit now, then perhaps as the others say you do need to rethink marriage.

You can't let this lie. You have to use this example as a starting block for talking about what the finances will look like once you're married, once you're on mat leave, once you're back at work. Will you go back? Will it be part-time? If it is part-time, how will the finances be adjusted?

My DH is naturally very tight good with money, and we came up with a solution which I actually think is better than an open joint account, which is that all earnings are pooled, expenses taken out, an agreed amount is saved into joint savings, and then we both have an equal amount of "spending money" for the month. That spending money doesn't include stuff for the house or food - that goes on a dedicated credit card which is paid off in full every month.

The advantage of that is a degree of autonomy on purchases - DH can indulge his Oliver Sweeney shoes / DVD habit without me feeling resentful, and I can carry on doing what I always do, which is spending as little as possible and saving for a rainy day in my savings account.

So there are creative solutions out there. But you have to come to a solution you're both happy with - or this will just become a bigger and bigger issue...

Obviously I don't know everything about your relationship, Bunnysoprano but I my ex was mean and controlling with money and - in my experience - mean with money leads to mean with everything.

He constantly accused me of not pulling my weight (not true - I earned a third of what he did, but paid half the bills, half of the holidays, half of every meal out...) and constantly wanted to know all the details of my income and outgoings, but wouldn't tell me his so that we could actually budget together.

He also could be generous - on his own terms - but often gave me gifts that could be seen, or presented them to me when his friends were there so he could look good.

When I finally escaped left him, I followed his example with regards to taking everything I had paid for and got several nasty emails and phone messages demanding the return of the Wok! It wasn't even an expensive wok

And it is true that if you marry a controlling man he will often relax and behave even more badly when he feels he has you - ie, if you get married/pg. You are right to worry about his attitude to money should you take maternity leave as the two of you seem to have very different attitudes to shared finances.

I don't know what to suggest if he absolutely refuses to go to counselling. Financial difficulties and differences are the number one cause of divorce, so it is important to address this.

At the least you need to sit him down and let him know that his attitude to money is a deal breaker. That you are seriously considering leaving. That calling you 'wasteful' - particularly to other people - is untrue and disrespectful. And that if he can't address his issues with shared finances and treat this as a partnership where you - and your money - are in it all together, then the relationship will end.

It's your responsibility as much as his to address this seriously and make sure that - if you are entering into a lifetime commitment - you can agree on the fundamental issues.

Good luck!

PS, he does sound like a tool though

He's not going to change - you can't make anybody change. He has to see what he has done wrong and want to change for himself - otherwise he will just revert to type again and again until you get sick of challenging him.

You are in a relationship, you haven't signed a contract. If you're getting grief from it, what's the point? What positive things does he bring to your life? I agree you have to take the rough with the smooth and work at things, but you're not even married yet. Please make sure this IS what you want to do before you go ahead - it's a big decision, and you still have time to change your mind.

That engagement ring isn't a contract you know. It might have been generous but do you know it's a marker of an abusive man that they will buy you expensive presents or always insist on doing favours for people, and then consider you "indebted" to them?

If I saw something a friend would like in a shop near their birthday and decided to buy it for them as a birthday present, I wouldn't expect anything in return. If it came round to my birthday and they were a bit skint I would think nothing if they didn't get me anythng.

I remember one christmas with XP where we agreed to spend a rough amount of £100 on each other. We earned a similar amount, he earned slightly more but had higher bills (debts etc) to pay out of his income, so we both felt this was fair. He didn't know what to get me so he got me to choose something, I picked a camera I liked and found a deal for just under £100 with a case and memory card. He left it until about a week before christmas to order it and it had gone up to about £140. I said "Oh don't worry about the case, just get me the camera then" but was a bit miffed that he'd missed out on the offer. "Oh no" he said "It's no problem" and ordered the original package I'd chosen.

I spent ages looking around buying lots of little bits which added up to somewhere around the total £100 limit. He hadn't indicated what he wanted at all so a lot of thought went into it on my part.

He then spent the next few weeks (and months later brought it up in every argument) berating me for not spending the same amount (to the penny) on him that he'd spent on me for christmas. I was so upset by it that we didn't bother to buy each other anything the next christmas, because I knew it was just going to end up a ridiculous competition. He never gave anything unless he believed he was going to get anything in return. We had a million and one other issues between us WRT money and this was just one of them. (I can go into more if you are interested) He was also very difficult to communicate with and did the emotionally distant thing if I annoyed him. One thing which particularly used to upset me was if I wasn't in the mood for sex when he was, he would refuse to cuddle or kiss or show me any affection at all.

It's not the end of the world being single. It's much better than being with him at any rate! I agree with the poster above who said you can have emotional reliability AND financial stability. In the words of Reality: "Just because you've escaped a level 10 bastard, don't settle for the first level 8 one who comes along"!

The latest money issue with XP, by the way, is that he refuses to pay any child support for his son, just in case I dare to spend any of it on myself. The fact it costs more to rent this house, heat it, clothe DS, feed him, take him to activities, etc etc, than he was ever paying in the first place is completely lost on him.

I'm really sorry that this thread has caused you to re-evaluate your relationship and (seemingly) that all those "little" things have suddenly started to add up to a very concerning scenario. However, thank god you aren't yet married. This has actually made me feel quite chilled .... not only is it extraordinarily mean (WTF is wrong with this "man" if he "won't" acknowledge the cost of living rises that are depleting your joint bills account, leaving you to make up the difference when you earn half what he does .... so, you're subbing the twat) but it's also demoralising, controlling and fucking with your head (blaming you for HIS lack of money etc, punishing you for being a "spendthrift" and so on).

As others have said, with that kind of attitude you will be extremely vulnerable should you stop/reduce work for any reason ... be it pregnancy or illness. I would also be concerned that this attitude might extend to any children you have (have read past similar threads where the children are seen as the woman's financial responsibility only).

If you're not yet prepared to split - and TBH, his micky taking of the last 2 years - how bloody dare he the entitled wanker ?!? - would make me leave on its own, then I'd be straight off (and definitely wouldn't marry him) if he didn't immediately agree to some very thorough counselling to try and get to the bottom of his attitude. I've a feeling though that he's the sort of man who'd never agree to discuss this with anyone.

I echo other posters. please can you go somewhere else tonight... your parents,a friend, to have a glass of wine, a bit of a chat with someone who actually has your best interests at heart. What you describe is scary..... I think you know this in your heart. Is there anyone who you can be honest with in RL?

I have been in a relationship where I felt I had to prove to my parnter that i loved him, I was trustworthy, i was honourable.... the problem was HIM, not me, and he played me and played on my insecurities. That is not normal. I recall my breaking point....when the x-partner screamed at me for hours because he did not like the way i chopped garlic. Objectively it sounds so stupid to break up with someone over a fight over garlic.... but it is more than that. And sorry, as a dentish his job is more important than yours and you are a solicitor? What a fucker. You both have important jobs. He is undermining you.

If you can only make one decision today, just get out for the night, go away to a friend. Just take some breathing space.

Oh Bunny he sounds an awful bully I really can't see how you could marry someone if you are scared about going to your own home, and scared about how he will treat you while you're on maternity leave.

How is it that he isn't putting any more money into the joint account than he was 2 years ago??

I think that you should listen to your gut instincts. Something is seriously strange about his attitude to money. How will he be if you go on maternity and are not contributing financially as you were?

I'm a SAHM - contribute zilch financially and DH earns all the cash. He never sees it as 'his' money - just ours. We separate a small amount out into personal accounts each month to cover personal stuff (hair cuts for me, nerdy camera shit for DH)

All a bit worrying and I feel for you

bunny you say "how can i make him listen?" and "even if he does listen how/why would he change"

if he is like this he is like this. you cannot change ANYONE. you can only change what you tolerate. i understand that it is very difficult to accept when something should be over (i am going through this right now, your thread has actually helped me) but it does sound as though this is just the type of person he is and you will not be happy with him. i dont think explaining to him will do any good. he has his opinion and as far as he is concerned he is right.

I don't think the OP needs to go anywhere other than home tonight. I suspect this has been a wake up call and she will now mull things over until she decides what to do. There's no rush, the wedding isn't till next year and they don't have children. Good luck with it, OP. It seems you are the perfect couple on the outside, but that may not be a firm foundation for a marriage and children.

You already know this but you need to talk about your joint finances.

If you ran out of money would he sit and eat steak while you ate bread and butter? What if you couldn't afford to go on holiday, would he go alone?

The thing that stood out most to me in your first post is that you share bills but he earns a lot more than you... what happens if you don't earn anything? what if he lost his job / got injured or sick? would he expect you to carry on your own standard of living and watch him try to get by on his savings? who will pay childcare if you go back to work?

this isn't about the fifty quid, it's about all the other money that has passed through your relationship and will in the future.

And he's proud of you to other people because you're his trophy: "My DF, the solicitor."

Be prepared for him to turn all your concerns about finances around to you being money-grabbing or trying to "rip him off." I suggest you just echo those back to him "you think I'm trying to rip you off? You really think that? I pay x% of my salary into the joint budget. How much do you pay? Do you think that is fair?" Stay calm. Do not let him twist your words or fudge the issues.

If necessary, and he persists in painting you as a greedy money-grabber, then you'll just have to shake your head sadly and tell him it's a shame he believes that of you, but you cannot live with someone who thinks that way."

Hope you're not too upset, Bunny.

Is he the Dentist out of Little Shop of Horrors? You need to go out and find your Seymour... He won't be rich, but he'll be very sweet, and treat you as you deserve...

Good luck.

(Actually - the deal-breaker for me was the "formidable mother' ...)

My ex hated paying child support because it was paid into my account. I had thought he would want the kids to have the same standard of living as they had before we split. Ha Ha!

He was and is a tight mean old bugger and your feller sounds just like him. I hate the way he said you need to be punished.

I'm sorry you are going through this, everyone needs to know the person who shares their life has got their back.

Blessings EM

I have come home. F is on the phone to a friend. I offered to make some food for him (with mine) but he has already eaten.

I think I'm going to have a bath and try and get an early night.

I feel quite spaced out and I don't really want to discuss anything with him tonight.

I have to work out the worst case scenario which is that I leave and be totally prepared to do it. I don't know if I can though. I'm wondering if the best thing to do is to try and discuss things over say, three weeks, a week at a time. If no resolution then I would have to go.

I think everything is just too hyped up at the moment.

clam - the mother is a pain in the arse but that is another story.