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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Bloody, twatting, (D)F

587 replies

Bunnysoprano · 12/07/2010 23:07

I am absolutely sick to death and need some perspective. However, I should warn you, this is long.....

This weekend, I parked my car in the drive in front of DF's car. We had two sets of keys - DF lost one set but denies it. Usually, I leave my keys in a glass bowl in the hall but, for some reason this weekend, I stuck them in my bag.

Today, I had to leave the house about 5:30am as was travelling for work. Whilst on the train to Glasgow, I got a text from DF saying he couldn't get his car out as I had blocked it in and taken my keys. Naturally (and I do understand this), he was annoyed.

He then got a taxi to and from work today which cost £50. However, he has used the money that I take out each month from our joint account to pay for the cleaner. I am apparently to pay this back as I need to be "punished" (I kid you not!) for what I did today re the car.

I have arrived home this evening at 10:00pm after travelling to and from Glasgow today an d am rather tired. Therefore, I have not taken very kindly to this and am absolutely fuming. Part of the reason is because F is saying that he can't afford to take a taxi to work and back (notwithstanding the fact that he is pretty much a three figure earner). Now, I do accept that it was wasted money due to my mistake but I earn nearly half of what he does. I have just paid nearly £400 for flights this month for us to go to a wedding which has left me very short on the basis that DF would sub me if I needed any money. I trusted him to do this but obviously this isn't happening.

We both put equal amounts in the joint account but just enough to cover the bills so there is no flex. F is making dire threats about not putting money in this month etc if I don't pay for the taxi etc.

I know this all sounds RIDICULOUSLY childish but I have actually had a moment of utter panic and thought that I can't actually marry someone who is going to treat me like this. What if I am off on maternity leave and need "punished"?!?!? Will I get no money.

I am fuming and have actually taken myself off in the spare bedroom to sleep tonight and think about things.

I am quite prepared for a total flaming as I am SO angry I can't think straight but AIBU about this?!?

OP posts:
traceybath · 15/07/2010 17:42

I think your parents will be a lot less than you imagine.

Good luck!

Jacksmama · 15/07/2010 18:01

Thinking of you.

Eventually, all will be well. Deep breaths. You can do it.

VicariousLurking · 15/07/2010 18:02

Take your time. Of course you need to talk.

deburca · 15/07/2010 19:15

Hi Bunny

so sorry to hear of whats happening with you, if its any consolation you arent on your own. A friend of mine is dating a guy who has hit her on occasion - he also hit his ex-wife and previous girlfriends. He once spat in her face after a nite out as he didnt like the dress she was wearing out (it was a girls nite and therefore he was not in attendance). She is now with him almost 6 years and we have tried everything to get her to leave him. His latest is telling her that she is much prettier without makeup (which would be lovely if he meant it but is really so she will dress down and be dowdy etc, previously it was that at the age of 30 she really shouldnt be wearing some items of clothing etc).

My point is that men like him and ur DF rarely change. friends boyf has been like this with all previous relationships and will be like that with the next girl once he has traded my friend in. I know this girl 10 years, she has gone from a happy outgoing girl to a nervous unhappy bitter person with no confidence and quite a bit of depression by all accounts. You seem like an intelligent person and certainly a fair minded one, why not be fair to yourself?

x

Deb

CarGirl · 15/07/2010 19:30

Well done for actually committing to tackling this and not pretending everything will be fine. Stay strong.

corriefan · 15/07/2010 19:33

If you do listen to what he says, do it without arguing with him if you can even if what he says is utter shite. Just let him say what he thinks calmly instead of angry verbal diarrhoea, so that you can distinguish between his calm self and bullshit he might say in defence when angry. If he's still a controlling tight wad when he's not angry you know then things need to change!

Also you could go to your parents for some space, not necessarily because you've split, it's just a good way to get away from it and get some perspective

Good luck with it all, keep posting x

stainesmassif · 15/07/2010 19:48

and don't feel like you've got fall out with him because mumsnet says so! give yourself some time to really think it through so that you know you've come to your own conclusion. hope everything is okay.
x

Flibbertyjibbet · 15/07/2010 19:49

I've been lurking reading this thread for a while and have 3 points to make.

  1. If you have a chat with him and he says sorry and he'll change; don't fall for it. He should never have thought it was ok to treat you like this in the first place. its not like it was a one off that he is mortified about and begging your forgiveness. he thinks he is right. If you say you are leaving he will beg you to stay and say he'll change. He won't change. He will want you to stay because he won't be able to bear the fact that other people will know you left him. He will say he'll change then end up worse than before, because his promise to change will only be part of his wanting to control you, ie get you to stay and have things carry on as before with him in the driving seat. And next time he'll say 'oh yes you tried to leave before and didn't manage it'.
  1. He wants to keep you around because you are SUBSIDISING HIS LIFESTYLE. he has a flat in negative equity but thats ok because his house is subsidised by your parents and the mortgage on his current home is subsidised by his lower earning fiance paying HALF. He has a car £37k but thats ok because you are paying more then half of all the utilities and bills etc. He expects you to chip in half to everything despite your much lower earnings but thats ok cause your mum will give you money for food.
  1. You keep saying 'what about when I'm on maternity leave'. I've been mumnsetting for 5 years now. The threads I've read... The maternity leave bit is just a tiny part of it. Maternity leave means you have a child. A man like this will expect his own lifestyle to remain unchanged. He will expect you to still bear your half of the bills. You will have to go back to work but now you'll have childcare to pay for, so your money is greatly reduced. He will look on it as something YOU have to pay. Then you might want another baby but no idea how you will afford childcare or another spell on maternity leave. Then the child or children start school and there are holidays to be taken at the most expensive times and he won't like that. He will expect you to pay every pair of shoes, school dinners, swimming lessons etc etc and all on your smaller income while you still pay your 'half' of the bills.

And yes I am looking at the worst case scenario of each of these 3 because (apart from the children bit) I lived it with my ex. At the time I left him people said 'thank god there were no children' and I thought well I'd have left him anyway. With years of hindsight i now know that if I had married my ex and had children with him, I'd have been desperately unhappy.

Your fiance has a sense of financial entitlement that is breathtaking. he lets you pay a huge proportion of your income, so that he can have a flash car sitting on the drive.

You don't have to explain anything to him, you can just pack and go. don't give him a chance to do the heartbroken bit promising to change. He won't.

Finally, I was 28 when I left my ex in the clothes I stood up in. I was 36 when I met dp and have two lovely children, we don't have much money but every penny we have is OURS.

clam · 15/07/2010 20:38

Hi bunny.
Keep checking in to see how you're doing.
Was thinking about all the people on here who've been saying that this relationship is a goner. I often feel a bit about such advice because we're only seeing a snapshot of the whole picture and it's seldom as simple as just upping and leaving, particularly if there are kids on the scene. Fortunately in your case there aren't, yet. But I've read your other threads, and it seems that you've been having serious doubts about a whole host of other issues in the few years you've been together.

I agree with you when you say you reckon it is going to finish soon, but maybe not tonight.

Bunnysoprano · 16/07/2010 09:59

I spoke to F last night - we went out to a restaurant and actually spoke quite calmly.

He is very worried about paying his tax bill apparently and we need to cut back the money going in to the joint account. I'm not sure how this can be done as most if it is fixed overheads.

I spoke to him about the tax and said that, actually, this should not be the issue that it is. About 37% of his income should go in to a separate account each month and not be touched. That should be used to pay the tax. He agreed that he would do this and not use tax money as income.

He has agreed to give me the £40 but not sure if I will actually get it.

He is going to cut back too apparently but that does not include not going out drinking tonight. Ways to cut down include "not tipping" when we go out.

We were meant to be going on holiday in October and I asked him how he was going to pay for this and he said with tax money. Clearly we were just going round in circles. He said that somethings, like holidays (and cars, presumably) cannot be compromised on and he works to go on holidays etc.

I said we should sit down and go over what money we have coming in and what money going out next weekend. He said there was absolutely no need for me to know what he earned.

This morning, he gave me a lift to my stop in my car. He drives that to work most days. There is a knocking noise in it (it is quite old) and I asked him if he would take it to the garage to have that looked at. He said he would once I was paid as he doesn't have any money to pay for it to be fixed. I asked him not to drive it then as I need it at the weekends and I want to conserve it for then. He said this was not "sharing" and that he drives me everywhere in his car, back to Scotland etc. Why do I expect him to share when I wont etc. I have also asked him to put petrol in it as I am putting petrol in it at the weekends and it then being driven all week and no petrol for me - again, this is an example of me being tight

I'm totally drained at the moment. I phoned my mum this morning who was pretty horrified and shocked. She has said that she can't understand why I have let matters get this far. I don't know either and feel like an idiot.

I am to phone her and my dad tonight. I feel so bad for worrying them like this as I know that she clearly is.

I think they will suggest one last time of speaking to him and then having to call things off.

OP posts:
LuluF · 16/07/2010 10:09

'He said there was absolutely no need for me to know what he earned' - I'm utterly shocked. Why on earth is it a problem if it's an equal partnership?

He does sound like a very spoiled brat to me.

I think your parents are probably right, though. This can't go on, really, can it?

Acanthus · 16/07/2010 10:18

He's made no provision for tax and he tells you that you are bad with money? FFS!

BTW - It doesn't sound remotely pathetic that you didn't split up with him last night. It's a big decision and you aren't under any time pressure.

LuluF · 16/07/2010 10:25

Agree with Acanthus - you aren't under pressure at all.

I had an unsuitable X-bf many years ago now - and he was a fairly big earner - self-employed - rubbish with money and very generous with other people (he hadn't had much when he was growing up, I think, so it was a big achievement for him I suppose), but even though he was really bad with money - even he managed to have a tax account and would put money aside so his tax bill wasn't a big stress.

So, looks like your F's going to have to sell his car!!

KnottyLocks · 16/07/2010 10:31

Morning Bunny.

I'm glad that you've managed to have a calm talk with F, at least that is possible. However, he doesn't appear to be hearing what you are saying to him. He has no money sense what so ever. In one breath he says he will put the tax money away, yet in the next he will spend it on a holiday? Whilst at the same time cut the money for bills etc? Priorities are all wrong.

What concerns me is that he will not take advice from you. What is all this shite about you not needing to know what he earns? Why does he think he should know about your earnings (and indeed bloody well spend them for you) and not even consider that you have the right to know about his, especially when you have joint financial commitments? Then to trot out some total bollocks about you not sharing is hypocritical beyond belief.

Why the hell does he drive your car when he has a 37k car himself? So you are providing his petrol, his means to work, paying for the priviledge, whilst his car sits all nice and shiny on the drive.

What a selfish leech.

I'm pleased that you have talked to your mum. It sounds like they will be a wonderful support to you. I think her 'How did it get to this?' is a natural reaction from a mother and easy to say when you not are actually within the relationship. Love can make us blind at times - we choose to see what we want to rather than face the reality. However, you are no longer blind and now have some real life support behind you.

thumbwitch · 16/07/2010 10:34

Oh Bunny. Well done for having a calm sane (on your part) discussion with him. I am glad you phoned your Mum and I am sure that she and your Dad will support you in whatever choice you make.

Your F has rather exposed himself in a useful-but-unpleasant way to you - his assets and holidays are sacrosanct but anything else is up to you to pay for, including subsidising his tax bill by the sounds of it, because he will use that for his leisure activities! WHAT a sponger! Sod that.

PLease stop feeling bad about yourself - obviously this has been insidious and you have been clinging to his "relationship reliability" factor as his golden quality, which has blinkered you a little to his other considerably-less-than-pleasant character traits. LOADS of people do this. Something in the chemicals involved in being "in love" melts the rational parts of your brain and causes love-blindness. The "in love" thing has to fade/go away for you to lose the love-blindness completely - and yours is nearly gone.

Have a ((hug)) and I hope you have a good chat with your DPs tonight.

Tweeze · 16/07/2010 10:35

Did he actually use the word 'punish'?

What a twat.

Get out now while you can or sit down and have a very frank conversation.

catsmother · 16/07/2010 10:58

Bunny .... your talk may have been calm but it doesn't appear to have given you any reassurance, and indeed, just a load more worry.

He is either incredibly stupid - and I don't believe that for one second with his job - or, he believes that he's this god-like person who doesn't need to worry about the "little" things in life such as tax bills, whilst your purpose is to bail him out and presumably be pleased to do it. How fucking arrogant he sounds (though he already did) when he talks about working to go on holidays ...... sure, if you can afford them, but not if you can't pay your tax. That comes first and the treats come after.

So ... just how is this tax bill going to get paid ? I suspect that one way or another you will end up paying. The normal swings and roundabouts of finances between normal couples such as replacing petrol you use will be declared as "impossible" as he has this "big tax bill coming up" and ditto him wanting to reduce input into the joint bills account (what the fuck ?!?) ... should you protest, no doubt the tax bill will be wheeled out again as his excuse for even more unequal contributions. Meantime, just as you've already been doing for quite some time, you'll have to make up the shortfall when all these fixed overheads have to be paid.

He is a complete and utter knob who is using you. I can't believe that if he earns at least double what you do that he apparently can't afford at least 50:50 into the joint account - and if he was a truly decent human being this would be a proportionate contribution. Nor can I believe - totally - that he has no money for tax. I can believe that even high earners can be spendthrifts but fancy car and holidays aside, does it not seem to you that there's a huge discrepancy between what he most likely earns and what sum he seemingly has at his disposal ? In the absence of further expensive spoilt-brat "toys" that he's frittered money away on, I would be very concerned that he's either a) stashing away "his" money so you can't get your "undeserving" mitts on it, or, he has an expensive habit of some description - be it drugs or gambling.

Fucking twat (excuse my language but I am so mad for you) .... "absolutely no need to know what he earnt" !!! How bloody arrogant can you get ? There's no need for you to know anything about his finances, but at the same time, you're repeatedly expected to pick up his tab in all sorts of ways despite earning far less and this entitled pig still says his money is none of your business !

There's every bloody need for you to know how much he earns. Not least, because if (god forbid) you end up staying with him you'd presumably like to know just how much of his liability you're going to have heaped upon you. Why the hell shouldn't you know ? He knows about your income - you're getting married - what makes him think he's so damn special and superior that you, a mere underling, aren't "allowed" to know about him ? Normal couples share their finances so they can make decisions about their lives and their futures together. So neither of them are placed at a financial (and emotional) disadvantage and so all essential expenses necessary for the running of their home can be paid. It strikes me that you're being kept at a very long arm's length here ...... it's not just the money he's keeping back, it's also a large part of himself .... despite being engaged - and even if you were to get married - he is NOT committing fully to you here. He's acting like you should be fucking grateful he's let you into his life and that he's so fucking fantastic anyone would be delighted to spend all their hard earned on him in order to keep him in the style he believes he's entitled to.

My god Bunny ..... no-one deserves this kind of attitude or treatment. You are a young (yes, 32 is young) woman who's obviously very clever, working for a well respected and decent firm in a well paid job. You don't need this total and utter twat in your life dragging you down. Is this really what all your past hard work has been for ? ..... so you can let an arrogant leech drain you not only of your money but all your self respect ? You are worth so much more than this and you have so many years ahead of you in which to build a truly happy life. There wasn't a single redeeming comment in what you've written above ..... his "promise" to set money aside for tax was immediately negated by his pathetic insistence on using what little tax money he does have on the holiday he "deserves". You can't trust him as far as you can throw him and his refusal to reveal his income and the way it was said was totally disgusting. His comment about the joint account was just as stupid and unrealistic as everything else that's been going on. He just doesn't "get it" one little bit does he ?

I don't see what is stopping you getting out. I do see - of course - that this is all tremendously upsetting, and sad, and disappointing - but there doesn't seem to be any hope in salvaging the situation. I know from past experience it's never "easy" to get out particularly when you have joint assets but I'm afraid that further hesitation will simply mean that this bloodsucker will continue to take just that little bit more for as long as you stick around. Far better to set the wheels in motion so you minimise his opportunity for doing that.

I'm sure that while your parents are worried and angry for you, they don't want you there any longer than you have to be. Any decent parent would rather their child was out of something like this sooner rather than later, regardless of the worry it caused them. I don't know if you told them everything but I'd be inclined to show them this thread so they can see the whole picture.

Please, please, do what's right for you. You should be absolutely raging at his treatment of you and his disdain for responsibility. Don't subject yourself to any more a minute longer than you have to.

Longtalljosie · 16/07/2010 11:04

Well done on telling your Mum. It'll make it all seem more "real"

emy72 · 16/07/2010 11:05

Funnily enough, after reading your latest post, I have been wondering whether he does indeed have an unsavoury habit.

People with habits tend to get aggressive because they don't want to be found out. He is too intelligent not to know that he needs to save money for tax, and presumably he was doing this way before he met you, without anyone bailing him out?

Maybe he has huge debts from the past or a bad habit he is concealing from you.

Just a thought.

Fizzywinelover · 16/07/2010 11:07

Good on you for calling your mother and calling your parents again tonight.

QueeferSutherland · 16/07/2010 11:11

You can tell a lot about person by the way they treat waiting staff.

"Not tipping" as a money-saving measure just set off a bastard-alert klaxon in my head.

Katisha · 16/07/2010 11:13

For me, being secretive about what he earns would be a deal breaker.

There's no way you can run your lives together on that basis.

Alibabaandthe40nappies · 16/07/2010 11:20

Bloody hell Bunny, what a horrible horrible 'man' he is! So he is going to cut what he is paying towards the mortgage and bills and expect you to pick up the shortfall in order that he can go away on holiday later in the year??

Why the fuck is he using your car when he has a car of his own?? This I really don't understand.

I suggest that you leave him, extract your £40k from the house and sell the engagement ring to buy yourself a new car

And yes, well done for telling your Mum. It is no longer a parallel universe that you're living in, this is your life that this is happening to and you have the power to change it.

Bunnysoprano · 16/07/2010 11:21

Emy72 - I think the "habit" is the car. But who knows?

I'm shaking but I know you are all right.

I can't actually believe this is happening. Stupidly, I think a bit of me was thinking that we could sort things out.

Catsmother - you are right. Last night just gave me a whole lot of new problems and worries. On the way home, he asked me about my debts and I said that I had a loan (had to take that out to pay for stamp duty when we move in). He asked who did I "expect" to pay that if I was on mat leave?

After last night, I have actually ended up in a worse position as he has now said he needs to to cut back the money going in to the joint account

I feel as though I am in a parallel universe when I speak to him as he makes me feel as though I am being so unreasonable, greedy and grasping. I start to doubt myself.

I would love to discuss this in front of a third party as I know that there is no way that he can justify what he was saying but he will never agree to that.

He has told me that I am not to discuss this with my parents as they are too interfering and that this is between us as we are getting married. Have obviously ignored that.

OP posts:
anyabanya · 16/07/2010 11:24

Bunny, you are doing brilliantly right now. You have written things down so you can process things in black and white (via MN and us), You have carefully explored areas of concern with him, you have kept your temper and you have sought help from your parents who clearly love, support and are concerned about you.

I think you have been extraordinary here, so strong.

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