Bloody, twatting, (D)F

[Bunnysoprano]

I am absolutely sick to death and need some perspective. However, I should warn you, this is long.....

This weekend, I parked my car in the drive in front of DF's car. We had two sets of keys - DF lost one set but denies it. Usually, I leave my keys in a glass bowl in the hall but, for some reason this weekend, I stuck them in my bag.

Today, I had to leave the house about 5:30am as was travelling for work. Whilst on the train to Glasgow, I got a text from DF saying he couldn't get his car out as I had blocked it in and taken my keys. Naturally (and I do understand this), he was annoyed.

He then got a taxi to and from work today which cost £50. However, he has used the money that I take out each month from our joint account to pay for the cleaner. I am apparently to pay this back as I need to be "punished" (I kid you not!) for what I did today re the car.

I have arrived home this evening at 10:00pm after travelling to and from Glasgow today an d am rather tired. Therefore, I have not taken very kindly to this and am absolutely fuming. Part of the reason is because F is saying that he can't afford to take a taxi to work and back (notwithstanding the fact that he is pretty much a three figure earner). Now, I do accept that it was wasted money due to my mistake but I earn nearly half of what he does. I have just paid nearly £400 for flights this month for us to go to a wedding which has left me very short on the basis that DF would sub me if I needed any money. I trusted him to do this but obviously this isn't happening.

We both put equal amounts in the joint account but just enough to cover the bills so there is no flex. F is making dire threats about not putting money in this month etc if I don't pay for the taxi etc.

I know this all sounds RIDICULOUSLY childish but I have actually had a moment of utter panic and thought that I can't actually marry someone who is going to treat me like this. What if I am off on maternity leave and need "punished"?!?!? Will I get no money.

I am fuming and have actually taken myself off in the spare bedroom to sleep tonight and think about things.

I am quite prepared for a total flaming as I am SO angry I can't think straight but AIBU about this?!?

Bunny- I agree with Tracey. Joint accounts are way down the list of problems in this relationship (FWIW DH and I have no joint accounts and no issues with money).

From what you say on this thread, it is him that is bad with money, not you. Decisions you have made such as letting your flat using an agent are totally sensible and work for you. Meanwhile his strategy seems to be a combination of extreme tightfistedness towards others, profligacy re his own desires combined with false economy- Alun Sugar would definitely say "you're fired". Are you sure you want to throw your finances in with this guy? Seems like he's the financial liability.

He reminds me of my ex who bought me a £4.99 book for my b'day (pleaded poverty) then bought himself a £1000 tri-bike a week later.

Dont stay with this guy because you think it's too late to meet anyone else. Firstly, it's not, and secondly, there are worse things than being alone.

You don't trust him? Well - that's a big sign that it's not going anywhere.

I wouldn't be worrying about joint accounts either.

The main point is .... do you trust him financially ? Could you hand on heart say that you feel safe and secure for as long as you're with him, knowing that he'll share ALL he has with you (and prospective children) whatever future circumstances might be ? If you lose your job, will he help you out ? .... or will the money he spends in the meantime be a loan until you find another job ? If you're ill, ditto. Can you even trust him to be honest about what he earns ? .... you've already said you don't know exactly what he earns and can only make an educated guess from his tax returns. Do you trust him to spend wisely and transparently, putting the needs of the family as a whole before his own selfish "wants" (e.g. fancy car and his attrocious attitude about it) ? Do you trust that you will both discuss all expenditure over an agreed sum ?

Can you trust him not to "punish" you for transgressions he defines ? Can you trust him not to leave you in the lurch - as with the cleaner ? Can you trust him not to keep calling you a "bastard" ?

I honestly don't think that even if you got a joint account things would miraculously become normal, respectful and honest, and I suspect that if you did he'd probably hide a lot of his income (relatively easy when there are no regular payslips to see) and then, if you dared to voice any concern over anything financial you'd get it in the neck for being "ungrateful" (or maybe an "ungrateful bastard") because, after all, he'd given you "what you wanted". This thing goes far far deeper than a joint account ..... it's about control and humiliation, as well as a very unpleasant tendency to be mean, spiteful and belittling.

I wouldn't be looking at getting yourself any more financially enmeshed with this man than you are already, at the present time.

It's not just about money is it. This fracas has been but your other threads point to equal lack of respect in other areas as well.

I've actually been thinking about things and I think he is actually just increadibly immature in every way. To do with money, communication, everything.

I am his first "serious" relationship.

None of this is any excuse.

My dad is an extremely successful business man. I am (presumably) an OK lawyer as work for a very well recognised, large commerical firm.

When my dad and I meet his friends or his family (most of whom own their own practices), they can't stop asking us questions as they see it as getting a bit of free business/legal advice.

F will get me to do work that suits him re his flat whilst saying that, actually, he could have done it all himself anyway.

However, in relation to business or employment law, neither dad nor I know ANYTHING at all and any attempts that I make to tell him something will either be written of as "rubbish" or, in the future, revisited as him actually telling me that.

The laugh is that people actually (quite) happily pay me £210 per hour plus VAT for the "rubbish" I spout.

You still haven't told us anything redeeming about him!

Sorry CarGirl - there is the issue about the emotional reliability but I am now starting to realise that this is, in fact, a facade.

I think you just need to tell him it's over and start the process of dealing with the shared property. Do not move out and do not give him the ring back (yet).

I think it's time to wheel this out again:

By RealityIsMyOnlyValentine Wed 04-Feb-09 08:00:20
I shall say this only once.

Actually, no I won't, I will keep repeating it until the message gets through.

Every person deserves to have a relationship where they are treated with respect, love and equality.

There is never an excuse for verbal, physical or financial abuse.

If you partner treats you like shit, it is their fault. It is not because of something you have done.

You can't change an abusive man by being 'better' or sticking by him where others haven't, or by changing yourself.

Most people have happy relationships, where disagreements happen and are resolved without resorting to shouting, name calling or violence or screwing someone else.

Most people's partners are happy for them to pursue their own friendships and interests, work and education, have access to money, make decisions.

Most people in a relationship stay faithful. They don't have affairs or cyber-sex or obsessively wank over porn day and night.

Don't be fooled into thinking that dysfunctional relationships are the norm. There are many of them on here, but then people don't tend to ask for advice on healthy relationships, so we hear less about them.

Relationships are not supposed to be hard work, that is a big fat myth. Yes, you should work at your relationship but that is not the same thing at all.

Nobody should live their life in fear of angering their partner, or skirting round issues that might upset him. Or put up with cheating and lying for fear of rocking the boat.

Nobody should 'stay together for the children', or because of your marriage vows. If your husband treats you badly, he has broken the vows. Children are much much happier being brought up by parents who live apart than in an atmosphere of fear and loathing.

Just because you've escaped a level 10 bastard, doesn't mean you should settle for the level 8 one that comes along. The only acceptable level of abuse is none.

Just because all your friends are in bad relationships, doesn't mean that you have to be.

I really want to debunk the myth that all men are bastards. They simply aren't. If you feel that all the men you meet are, it's because you are unconsciously sending out vibes to these men. They can spot a target a mile off.

Be on your own. It is much easier than sticking by a tosser. If you have been in more than one abusive relationship, seek some counselling, you may be co-dependant, or you may be modelling relationships on a warped template, perhaps from childhood.

If he abuses you, he is not a good father. Good fathers don't treat the mother of their children with disrespect.

It doesn't matter how much he says sorry and makes it up to you, if he continues to abuse you those apologies are worthless.

Don't be fooled into thinking the abuse isn't 'bad enough to leave'. If you are treated in any way less than cherished, loved and respected, it is bad enough to leave.

There is never a reason to stay with an abusive man. He won't kill himself if you leave him, he won't take your children, and yes, everybody will believe you.

I probably have loads more to say on the subject but I will leave it there for now.

Much love to everybody.

I think you've sorted it all out in your head now. If he can't respect you for who you are and what you do - particularly as you're clearly in a good profession and must be pretty good at your job - it is very unlikely to work out well in the long run. A partnership needs mutual respect and he seems to be lacking that in bucketloads.

Don't forget about the flight for the wedding too - make sure you don't miss a deadline which would enable you to get more of the money back.

Do you really want to raise children with this guy???

He sounds a complete arse! His redeeming feature is that he won't cheat on you?

Of course he won't, he has you to torture and destroy - why does he want to bother with any one else?

run away, run away now.

Gosh, and expert in Dentistry, Business AND Law - he really is a Jack of all trades, isn't he? Maybe next time he needs help with his flat (if you're still around) I'd be tempted to tell him he can manage it all by himself.

Please don't think you are too old or written off at 32. Your life will open up before you once you get away from this man.

Don't think about changing him. The only person who can change him is HIM. And he will not change, as he does not think he is wrong. And nothing you say will make him believe that he is wrong. It's really that simple.

I think part of the difficulty for you may be that you are trying to get your head around WHY he is behaving this way. I know this, as I had this very issue with my first DH. You keep thinking that if you could figure out why he is doing this, that you could bring about a change. But see the bottom line is that it doesn't matter why... even if you could figure it out, it simply doesn't matter why...

For what it's worth, I agree with those who say you should not show him this thread. The minute he knows you are receiving any type of emotional support, his first step will be to undermine it and interrupt it.

Great post Portia.

You deserve to be with someone who loves you, respects you and wants to protect you. You sound like an intelligent woman who is capable of being totally self sufficient and you do not need to put up with this abuse (and it is abuse, verbal and financial). What would you tell your best friend/ sister if she was in this situation??

Bunny, tomorrow I go to the wedding of a very dear friend who had some really abusive relationships.

She met her soon to be dh 3 years ago at the age of 34.

She is finally, truly, giddily happy - and she deserves it.

So do you.

Maybe that's it, lilmissmummy - maybe OP's F also knows she is an intelligent woman, capable of being totally self-sufficient - and trying to wear her down and erode her self-confidence may be how he thinks he can make sure she doesn't leave. He wouldn't be the first, would he?

I think it is hard to realise (when you come from a respectful family that communicates reasonably well) just how weird other people can be. I'm not surprised that you assumed he was ok - after all he is clearly an intelligent and hardworking chap, given his profession. It's not your fault you didn't see it before, but it night be better to move on now than end up divorced with young children.

I think it is hard to realise (when you come from a respectful family that communicates reasonably well) just how weird other people can be

That is so true! However, I am quite sure that his father has never called his mother "a bastard" or vice versa or that he has ever withheld money from her.

I know that actually why he does it is quite immaterial, but I just can't work out WHY he is like this. Where did he learn it was OK?

I remember my parents having some BIG arguments when I was little but neither would ever call each other a "bastard" and everything is always shared.

Don't worry about the why. Some people just are!

Thw "why?" question could possibly be answered as simply as "because it works!" He throws a tantrum - he gets things his way.

But ... how do you know his father hasn't done those things? You've said that, to friends and family, your (D??)F seems like a respectful lovely generous laid-back guy. So what's to say what your in-laws are like, behind closed doors?

Bunny- as you have said yourself, it is NOTHING to do with MONEY.

I posted yesterday to suggest that you do a search of your own posting name, which will bring up all your own posts. I did this looking for this thread, and found several others by you in which you describe him behaving the same way over other things.

If it were just about the money, you may be able to come to an agreement. You are not stupid- you said it yourself that it is about trust. And not just about you trusting him. He does not 'trust' you to behave in the way that he wants, so uses criticisms, threats and shouting to mold your behaviour.

Could you honestly ever see yourself behaving in this way towards him or towards anyone you are in a relationship with? Of course not, so why should it be alright for him to do this?

You cannot force him to 'trust' you and you cannot make him behave in a reasonable manner.

I can see that you are very puzzled as to why he is acting like this, and probably (perhaps subconsciously) think that if you can only figure it out, you could provide the key to solving it. As an educated, strong, clever woman, this surely should be within your capabilities to fix? After all, you probably solve more complicated problems for your clients.

This is not true. I work in a very similar job to you. I was also in an abusive relationship. It was only with the benefit of hindsight that I came to realise that there was no way that I could 'fix' my ex. Only he had the power to change himself, and there was nothing that I could do and say to help him unless he made that decision himself. I wasted far too long hoping that he was going to do so.

One day you may suddenly understand why your fiance behaves as he does (especially if you keep reading posts by the insightful ladies on MN ). My lightbulb moment came 4 years after I had split from my ex.

What is important though is to remember that MOST RELATIONSHIPS AND MEN ARE NOT LIKE THIS. Your fiance is WIERD. This is NOT NORMALITY. And you most definitely CAN DO BETTER. The relief if you do will be enormous.