Support group for those affected by someone else's drinking - thread 4

[pointythings]

I'm about to head out for the morning routine and given how active our thread has been I felt I had better provide a new one.

Link to the previous thread: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/alcohol_support/5418536-support-group-for-those-affecteed-by-someone-elses-drinking-thread-3

@AcrossthePond55 I am not a wife but I’m definitely 3 of these too.

@Nogoodusername I realised that whatever I have done/did (and sometimes still doing) it hasn’t made a jot of difference. That just goes to show me that it really is up to them to stop, to WANT to stop. There will always be an excuse or someone tho blame. You just have to believe in yourself that it isn’t you/your fault.

Bless you @Nogoodusername. I won’t be kicking you butt anymore than you kicked me.

delete the emails or put into junk

@Nogoodusername Not contacting my late husband was the hardest thing I have ever done. Talking to my real life support system helped keep me strong as did several Mumsnet ‘firm words’. Sometimes I know I wished I wasn’t being so strong, and although at times it would have been the easiest thing to give in, the script would not have been the story I wanted. Hold that in your mind if you can.

This is the problem isn't it? There's always the thought that this time, you'll get through to them and be able to magically fix things. Ignoring is hard and yes, it can make you feel as if you're being hard hearted. But when you think back to what happened last time, and the time before, it becomes pretty clear that doing the same thing again will end the same way.

@Nogoodusername it doesnt make you unsympathetic at all. I am doing the same thing, it just means we are putting our own sanity first. The addict puts the addiction first, and we can put ourselves first.

I am also ignoring the letters, mine come through the post. I've blocked the numbers he calls from. I have had letters recently, and today a phone call from someone he knows. Saying they need to call an ambulance for him.

I imagine he has run out of alcohol and is now in life threatening withdrawal/is vomiting blood/has hepatic encephalopathy.

I can't do anything about this, and I supported him through it in November. Its not my responsibility, and if I was answering letters/calls etc then I would feel morally responsible to act. If the letters have anything concerning I call the GP.

I do feel very sad for him, its an awful state to be in. Unfortunately the cycle will continue, until it doesnt anymore.

He also had antabuse, a few times. The most recent time was last year. He drank anyway, and was very ill when he accidentally took it instead of thiamine. It didnt stop him drinking, and then he chose to stop taking it.

Agree, I have done all of those. Things didn't improve until I accepted that leaving him was the only sensible option.

I feel like supporting him through the home detox 4 months ago, after which he managed 10 sober days, was the last of the last chances to support him with treatment as a ‘friend’. He turned on me within about 6 hours of that drink touching his lips. All the blame, resentment and abuse. I had been slowly letting him go since we separated in the summer. But like that screenshot from @AcrossthePond55 said, it was a gradual and little by little process. But that was really a milestone in my giving up and moving on.

completely blanking his nice emails feels harsh each time I do it, and each time the guilt is back in my head for a couple of days, but I do know it only ever ends in his anger. He reaches out because he wants me to swoop in to fix or cover like I used to, or to believe his excuses/ reasons like I used to, and no one is angrier than an addict who doesn’t have a ‘poor you’ emotional support donkey any more!

I don’t believe he is sober. But if he is, even in his nice email, I can see an underlying setting the scene for being back on the booze - there is some poor me, and I can’t be expected to work miracles when my life is so terrible. Sigh.

I don’t see his fb now as was fed up with him saying oh you had lunch with xyz or did you enjoy cinema etc so changed my settings

thats fine

I’ve been told 5 times today that he’s put up a woe is me status. Around. 1am Fed up. Not seeing anyone and he would be better off dead

this makes me sad again like I was Sunday and how did things get that bad

i don’t want to go down there with dd and find him dead but I also think think is the feel sorry for me. The boy who cried wolf

till he didn’t

so now feeling guilty

So here's the latest and will try to make it succinct.

DH in hospital under a 5150 (72 hour MH 'hold'). As of 9pm last night the plan was to do an 'involuntary admission' to a dual diagnosis centre and they were 'sending referrals' to find him a bed. Reminder, I'm in the US where there is no nationalized healthcare and insurance normally doesn't pay for substance abuse treatment, especially on an inpatient basis.

This is what we have all be praying for, not just because he needs it, but because from what we understand 'involuntary admission' means it's a mental health admission and insurance will then pay for it and for follow up care. He's been on 5150 before but has always ended up being discharged as 'fit to go home' before the 72 hours are up. And involuntary admission to a facility has never been mentioned before. Average cost of substance abuse inpatient treatment without insurance? Minimum is usually $30-60k for 30 days, non refundable and doesn't include followup out-patient care. Insurance paying would be a Godsend.

I'm trying not to get my hopes up because things can turn on a dime.

Don't feel guilty. Guilt is a useless emotion and does nothing but drag us down. It's usually something others put on us to get us to do what they want or to make us feel worthless. 'Remorse' is different than guilt, but you have nothing to feel remorseful for. You've done what you could for as long as you could. You have put yourself first now and that is the right thing to do. We can only beat our heads against a stone wall for so long before we do ourselves damage.

Remember "You are not required to set yourself on fire to keep other people warm". I've been an expert at that in the past!! But now I'm using my 'fire' to keep myself warm.'

Aww @Penguinsandspaniels the conflicting emotions are shit. My Ex and yours are a lot alike. Realistically, we know that they cycle behaviour. Like you said before, he got his UC and has likely been smashing the alcohol since then and now has a depressive phase from consuming so much of a depressant substance. It’s time for woe is me, and his life is so shit, and everyone feel sorry for me please. And the thing is, both you and I know that their lives are indeed shit - because surrendering constantly to the addiction has cost them everything. But they would rather wallow in the life is shit than fight the addiction and rebuild their life.

My Ex references and threatens suicide a lot. I fear he will one day go through with it. But if he does, that’s on him. If our addicts choose death over fighting their addiction, it won’t be something that we could have stopped

As a PP said - we have to put ourselves first because our addicts put their addiction first.

Wow @AcrossthePond55 so if insurance didn’t pay out it would cost you possibly £60k but even £30k is insane. - a grand a day. That’s more costly than care homes !!

Thank you @AcrossthePond55 and @Nogoodusername. I know you are both right

his life is shit now but he won’t do anything to help it. He still has family who saw it and said we are here for you - let us help

one said don’t put things like that up. Sounds like you are going to commit suicide (I really feel he hasn’t the balls for this) but still makes me feel sad when I hear about it - and to call us if feeling down

anyway needless to say he’s fine. And he sent me a normal message about bringing dd down tomorrow

and lots of people rang him. His older kid even messaged him to say what’s going on and they are there if need to talk (so an olive branch) but he says I’m fine now. Was a bit depressed

which is language for - I had a drink and posted while semi drunk

it is so hard. More for dd. Sh deserves a better dad but he just won’t do anything to stop the drinking

Yeah. I really used to jump and run at Ex’s suicide messages, as did his siblings. Now we’ve had a couple of years of so many text messages about ropes/ jumping in front of a train/ photos of the meds he is planning to OD on and “I am going to A&E because I’m not safe” that we are all numb to it.

We (before I went no contact) would ignore the threats and just reply with crisis line numbers without comment or say “good to go to A&E” and leave him to it. He’s definitely the boy who cried wolf (or the addict who cried crisis). One day, as I say, I fear it will come true but it’s not like our support ever makes any difference, so what choice but to become numb to it and save ourselves by detaching

Before I truly came to terms with the 3Cs and accepted I couldn’t save him, I used to feel an obligation to save him for his daughters’ sake. They are really lovely, sweet girls and I wanted to protect them from the trauma of a parental death. But we can’t. Addiction and its mental health impacts are a journey for professionals and the addicted individual .

I feel for your DD too @Penguinsandspaniels but she has an awesome, strong mother who has ensured that she is safe from the first hand consequences of an alcoholic father by separating and then putting safeguarding measures in place for her contact with Dad. You rock!

That made me cry @Nogoodusername. I am trying to do my best for her but so hard being a single working mum with zero help financially or physically. I don’t get a break from dd the way most single parents do when with their other parent - but I must rather she’s with me than with him alone as can’t be trusted and more to the point she doesn’t want to be alone with him. Which is sad as he’s her dad but I get why she feels like that

@Penguinsandspaniels

his life is shit now but he won’t do anything to help it

And that is what you need to keep uppermost in your mind. HIS life and HE won't. It's what I need to keep remembering myself. That if he doesn't care enough about himself (or us) to get the help he needs, why should I (or those who love him) break our hearts or run ourselves ragged over it? In a way it's a 'spit in our eyes' thing. He doesn't want to help himself, but expects all around him to fall all over themselves to pity him and help him, whether it's finding him treatment (that he won't go to) or running errands. I've set my boundaries and I'm sticking to them. Do I falter at times? Yes, I'm only human. But just having them gives me strength to 'do better' next time.

As far as DD, you're a wise and good mum. You will always do the right thing for her. You will know if it's the right thing to take her to see him 'as he is' and there is nothing wrong with deciding 'now is not the right time'.

Yes, it's ridiculous that insurance doesn't cover rehab. It's a situation where if you are rich you can plop down the cash at a 'camp cupcake' that's basically a spa-with-treatment. If you are poor, Medicaid (the US's govt health program for the poor) will pay for it although you'll go to the cheapest facility. But if you are in the middle (like we are) you're SoL).

In a mini-update: DH thinks he's going home today or tomorrow. I've been assured as of yesterday late morning that 'the plan is still the plan' but have heard nothing about where they are in the search. I'm sure the weekend complicates things. I'm saying nothing to DH but I dread when he A- finds out he's being admitted or B- they say 'never mind, he's going home'.

@Penguinsandspaniels it's bloody hard to avoid the guilt. When my Dh sent messages like those, and concerned friends offered 'help' I often wondered if they were thinking I was a heartless cow. But well meaning others don't know what it's like. They don't realise there's nothing they can do. My Dh was the only one who could save himself. And he didn't. He died. But I refuse to blame myself because ultimately, what he chose to do with his life was up to him, and him alone. Nothing I did or didn't do changed anything.

Excatly this @CharlotteByrde- what did he die of ? Was it through booze - stroke - stomach bleeding - that how I think ex will go

@AcrossthePond55 any update on dh ?

@Penguinsandspaniels

Thanks for asking. As of this morning 'the plan is still the plan'. He was informed a bit ago that he would be transferred to a psychiatric facility and he is extremely upset and angry. Naturally, it's all my fault because, according to him, I told them he is incapable of taking care of himself. Fine, blame me I don't care. He can be as angry with me as he wants as long as he gets the help he needs. Whether that help is accepted or the results last is up to him. I (and the medical staff at the hospital) have done what we can. The ball is now in his court.

His 5051 is up around 3pm as far as I can figure. I was told that if they don't have a bed for him somewhere by then that a doctor can write another 5150, giving them 72 additional hours. I have to admit I'm puzzled about why it's taking so long. I wasn't aware that there was such a shortage in beds in psych facilities. But the last time I was on the 'fringe' of something like that the person in question (child of a friend) was acutely suicidal and so was placed immediately. I guess he's not that critical as he isn't threatening suicide.

My other concern is that they're having to 'wrangle' with his insurance(s) to get things covered. They can make hospitals jump through hoops with documentation. But at this point that is out of my hands. Our finances have been separated 50/50 as far as they can be and my attorney has assured me that I cannot be held responsible for his debts after July 2025. And that if his assets are depleted due to this that a judge cannot order me to pay more in a settlement because of that.

So we shall see what today brings. All we can do is wait and pray. So far I've had 2 phone calls from him ranting at me. I'm just calmly replying that he needs to cooperate with whatever they want him to do and that he has been asking for help for months and now is his chance.

I hope he accepts Their help. You have come this far so he needs to take this chance

@AcrossthePond55 if ever someone did everything humanly possible, it's you. I'm in awe of you.

Thanks @Penguinsandspaniels @pointythings

At this point he seems resigned but that can change in an instant as we all know. It's going to be a tense day for us. I really hate not knowing the when and where. Good thing I have laundry to do, floors to clean, and a few closets I can sort through. Nothing like housework to keep your mind off things 😜

Well, it’s not looking good. Apparently the places that have been contacted are either ‘at capacity’ or have turned him down ‘for medical reasons’. She’ll keep working on it but the questions she was asking me seem to point towards him once again being sent home. I’ve done what I could to stress that he needs treatment for anxiety, depression, etc. I told her that if he goes home the whole cycle will begin again. She will ‘keep working on it’ and will keep me informed.

His 'hold' is up in about 45 minutes. I'm pretty much resigned to him being sent home. There is nothing I can do.