Support group for those affected by someone else's drinking - thread 4

[pointythings]

I'm about to head out for the morning routine and given how active our thread has been I felt I had better provide a new one.

Link to the previous thread: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/alcohol_support/5418536-support-group-for-those-affecteed-by-someone-elses-drinking-thread-3

I keep thinking I need to plan an out for myself but as everything is in joint names I can't really do much.

@wouldratgerbeunknown

This is of course from a US perspective. There are of course some assets that you can't do anything about, like a house or certain investment assets, but what I was advised was that legally I could move however much I wanted from a JOINT account. I couldn't close an account, but I could take everything but the minimum deposit. Money in joint accounts belongs to both of so either can move it around or take it. BUT the 'real' advice was to move only half because in a separation or divorce 1-it doesn't look good if you take more than half and 2- they are entitled to claim back any excess over half. AND I was advised that if I was going to do so I needed to do it BEFORE any legal papers were filed (by either of us). Legal filing put a type of 'restraining order' on both parties preventing either from moving, giving away, selling, destroying, or throwing out anything that might be considered community property (UK 'marital property') until a judgment is made. I took exactly half of the joint accounts and moved it into a sole account. There are a few things that I could not touch as they required both of our signatures. So they will sit untouched until a judgement is made. But I had enough to start my new life.

If you haven't, speak to a solicitor and see what you can do as far as joint assets go PRIOR to any legal filings. You may be surprised.

This is how I feel too. My sister's DP did all the hard work and still does. 15 years sober. But all I ever got from my late husband was the classic 'Poor me, poor me, pour me another drink'.

I try not to think about it.

It was the excuses that got to me in the end, and I think helped me see he was never going to take responsibility. His last excuse to me was a note written when bail conditions were raised where he tried to blame his 'possible psycotic episode' on some drugs newly prescribed, that had actually arrived the day after he was arrested..... when I didn't respond to that he came and broke into the house.

That was the day my hope died, and although at many times over the next 8/9 months the only thing I wanted was to be back with him, I knew in my head that nothing would change, and I had no idea how I would have reacted if he had turned up at my door.
It is so stupid, he had everything he said he had wanted with me, and I had moved heaven and earth to try to fix things when he added something new to the list of what he wanted. And then he had nothing, and he lost even the facade that he was the skilled professional man that he pretended to be, and I think that was what took him towards his final 'rock bottom'.
I wish I had been able to do more to protect myself earlier, and I suppose that is one of the things that I hope this thread does for others, and shouts loud and clear that we are the only people who can look after ourselves, and we are not responsible....
Good and calm thoughts to all.

@Userccjlnhibibljn8

That was the day my hope died, and although at many times over the next 8/9 months the only thing I wanted was to be back with him, I knew in my head that nothing would change, and I had no idea how I would have reacted if he had turned up at my door.

Boy, do I know that feeling. How I'd love to turn back the clock and have this never have happened. But I know it's impossible and for me the hope is dying bit by bit, day by day because he is killing it. Every refusal to take responsibility, every angry tirade about what a terrible bitch I am, every drunken tear filled phone call begging me to come back. Every trip to the ER where promises are made by staff only for nothing to happen.

I've kept my address from him. Mostly because I don't want him showing up making a scene outside my door or trying to grab the dog from me. But also because of those moments of pain and 'I just want it all to go away'. But those moments are also decreasing bit by bit luckily.

I have been called in by his therapist via email for a meeting to discuss the future and what his discharge will be like. It's next week and booked for 90 minutes
I spoke to my husband this evening who is still on huge doses of Librium and seems pretty groggy. He said they want to examine our marriage. !!! As far as I know it was a pretty good marriage until a litre of gin a day arrived in the house.
I really don't feel comfortable with that without some pre warning of what's it's all about. Have a feeling maybe I'm the big bad wolf??
I've asked the therapist to confirm what the meeting will be about but wondered if any of you had this?

No I haven’t @wouldratgerbeunknown. Is your DH in a private rehab centre funded by insurance? At a couple of Ex’a rehab 21 or 28 stays (privately funded at £12K to £16 per stay, although that seems cheap compared to a dual diagnosis ‘specialist’ rehab in London at £28K) there was a family meeting as part of the process. Therapist led, 60 minutes and was him, me, his siblings and his elderly parent. Certainly not 90 mins with partner alone!!

huge doses of librium on day 8 is unusual. His withdrawals must be bad. Ex was always on zero by day 7. Large doses only days 1-3 really. Sigh that I know so much about medically managed withdrawals. I even administered one myself.

Yes it's via his work medical insurance.
So a private hospital although they do have NHS patients there.
Yes his withdrawals are very bad - is this directly related to the amount of alcohol he was drinking? Or is there health implications that he's not getting over the withdrawals for instance liver damage?
I have asked several times to speak to a doctor but no one has called back .
This is day 10 he's booked in for 28 days
Oh so you've been through this and as I can see from
Your previous posts to no avail.
How on earth did you manage this so many times?
I think I can't do this again although having the house to myself is just lovely

How much was he drinking @wouldratgerbeunknowndaily? As @Nogoodusername said to still be on drugs day 8 and high dose sounds bad

I know a little about detox as first dh was detoxed via nhs and hospital after he had a fit while we were reducing and the drugs he was given.

he was doing a litre of vodka a day (same as dh2) sometimes I wonder how the hell I Managed to get 2 alcoholic dh (that totally outs me if anyone knows me on here)

but by end of week 1 he was off drugs and withdrawal and in a much happier place tho stayed there another week

Is there a limit to insurance and how many times they wil pay for detox

I’m not sure @wouldratgerbeunknown. It could be that some people just physically cope with withdrawal more easily than others - have a higher physical tolerance. My Ex didn’t do spirits, he was on about 30-35 units daily and drinking those steadily from morning to night. He would always be in withdrawal by the morning and drink first thing to manage that, sometimes he even hit withdrawal over night and would wake in the early hours sweating and vomiting. But he withdrew well and could get off Librium quickly. In one detox/ rehab he asked to be reduced more quickly than they had planned as it was higher doses than he needed. His health isn’t great - various BP, heart, lung and liver problems - so I don’t think it’s a sign that your DH’a health is worth.

What I am hoping for you is that your DH has accessed detox and a 28 day programme more quickly than my Ex. My Ex probably went at least a year if not two too late. He had already lost a lot and had plenty to blame when he relapsed the first time. His first relapse after rehab was the beginning of the most dramatic and hideous spiral. He not only relapsed but picked up a coke addiction.

Yes, it was a hideous two years. He has been in private rehab in 3 times (21/21/28 days stays), a private week detox that he rage quit out of, a hospital detox after a health admission that he also walked out of, and finally a medically managed home detox through local services. We separated 6 months ago after three months of relapse. I went back to supervise the home detox. He relapsed again and that was my rock bottom. He is VILE in addiction. I look back and cannot believe what I put up with, especially as we do not share children and I have my own home. They were the worse two years of my life - how he behaved, how he treated me, and the constant crisis and hope and dashed hope that accompanies addiction. I am sure alcohol will kill him but I will never be sorry that I walked away. I chose me because the addict chooses addiction.

I have no idea how much he was drinking by the time he went in it seemed to escalate dramatically when he knew that the admission was a possibility.
They said he'd greatly underestimated how much he was having and that that is pretty normal as people don't know what they are doing.
It's once in a lifetime cover for mental health so no more admissions via the private route. Unless we pay I suppose.
God knows how you did this at home penguins plus getting two on the bounce!
Are you single for life now?

That all sounds absolutely hideous.
His heavy drinking only came to our attention in May/ June last year and he did manage to cut back initially with some input from the local alcohol services. But there's been a couple of truly awful periods since then.
The therapist says I'm deluded ( not as bluntly as that that but that's what she means) and this will have been in the making for a very long time.
So far he's still got his job and the children adults) are being sympathetic but I can see that won't last .
It's a lonely road to be on as you all know better than me.
I don't know why I just have a feeling he's not going to do well .

The people on this program he's on are a mixture of addicts a lot of them are on drugs and booze so I'm hoping it doesn't add to the horror.
It's living in the same house that's worrying me now.
He's already said he won't leave the house so I have to start thinking what I'd do .

I am fairly sure that we told yoj on this thread (but nicely) that it was very likely your husband had been drinking very heavily for far longer than you were aware. That would have come from our personal experience; we have all been deceived by our alcoholics, because that's what they do. We aren't designed to spot them until they start unravelling, we aren't made like they are.

On the whole it is safest to expect the worst so that you might end up pleasantly surprised. Not easy to do, I know.

@wouldratgerbeunknown

It's living in the same house that's worrying me now.
He's already said he won't leave the house so I have to start thinking what I'd do

What you do is leave, or make definite preparations for a quick getaway. Why wait for the next 'incident'? Figure your budget, what you can afford and where you can go til the dust settles if you have to leave 'precipitously', like I did. I was lucky that my DS1 was able to take me in, but I would have gone to a hotel if I'd had to. It's just not worth the stress and mental pain of trying to survive in the house with them. Because that's all we can do, simply survive. And that is not enough. We deserve to thrive.

I can't remember if you've spoken to a solicitor or not. I think you have, but I don't recall what you were told. But either way a visit to one now is a good idea if you haven't or if it's been some time since you have. I saw one soon after I left and it was very reassuring. I was told (US) that being the one to leave had absolutely NO bearing on my ownership of the house nor what I would be entitled to when we sell. And where I live, I am not required to contribute to the mortgage if I am not living there, especially since I am 'supporting' my own household. I suppose one difference for me is that I do NOT want the house so that made it easier, I suppose, to stay away after I was escorted out. I was also given guidance on what I could and could not do as far as taking money from joint accounts. I ended up having the papers prepared for the separation, but a 'hold' put on filing. I think it was about a month later that I 'pulled the trigger' after another threat to trash my belongings and he emptied our joint account (not realizing I'd already taken half, the fool.

Even if you decide to wait it out, having the ducks in a row and a solid plan is a great sense of security. I'd figured my 'budget' and priced rentals even though I'd made a conscious decision that I was going to 'stick it out'. Obvs I changed my mind and I was so thankful that I'd had the foresight to plan for that contingency.

@wouldratgerbeunknown Looking back, I was hopelessly naive about the length and extent of my DH's drinking. But I had no reason not to be -I had zero experience of alcoholics and their sneaky ways and was completely blindsided.

I think we are all naive about how much they drink but also as they are so clever and lie and minipulate and gaslight and make you believe you ar win the wrong and they are sober etc

Well been single for almost 2yrs since kicked dh out . My main concerns are being there for dd and till divorce is done to not even think about dating

but never say never. It is lonely and hard work being a single parent though have amazing supportive friends and dh family supportive - sometimes I would love someone to just cuddle me and say it all ok and I love you

tho God knows how I would find the time to energy to date

Dh 1 was a very diff drunk from dh 2. Kind loving never shouty and at times in tears while drunk as didn’t want to be but couldn’t see the way out and the dark black dog of depression

dh 2 is nasty verbally and mentally when drinking but not physically. But shouting and swearing and scary at times and always lying /hiding the drinking

trying to detox 1 at home was silly as I didn’t know how much he was drinking and he drank in front of me but hid it well as well if makes sense

the doctor said to give little and often and we did little bottle of beers an one an hour or so.

obv in hindsight and knowing what I know now , it obv wasn’t enough and ending up fitting at home and 999 and how managed to get detoxed in hospital as I refused to have him home

this was 15yrs ago now and maybe things are very different medically

@wouldratgerbeunknown I am definitely single for life now, for three main reasons:

• The good times with him before the booze were really, really good. I can't see someone else measuring up.
• The bad times were so bad that I don't want to risk anything like that again
• My life currently is absolutely great: I have a job I love, a home I own, hobbies, friends, excellent relationships with my adult kids. I can't see a partner adding to that.

whispers to @pointythings what about sex

We are having a mixed night tonight. My DS received a message saying the funding is in place for a residential detox but they need to source a provider. At last!
Then he just had a drunkenly, mawkish sobbing moment rolling around on our hallway floor. At 23 and over 6 ft, it’s a bit of an eyeful.

The only reason he has received the info about the funding is because he lied and said we were gearing up to evict him.
If I am honest, I fantasise about evicting him. Sleeping a restful nights sleep and not living in a house that stinks and turns my stomach.
I have been so focussed on the detox but being here with you all has helped me understand that the reality will be that he probably won’t maintain it.
I appreciate you all and the info that I can digest and start to process.

@Hellodarknes55 that is great news. If nothing else, it will give you some peace for a while. And we can all hope that it might put him on the road to recovery.

I've never had an enormous libido, but there's always assisted self service, as it were.

I agree with @pointythings about never wanting to be 'involved' with anyone again. My independence means too much to me and I could never trust another man (or myself to know a good 'un for that matter). And I know it sounds melodramatic, but DH was 'my person' and I know I'll love him until I die. I don't feel any need to replace him.

As far as sex, being single is still new to me, but in all honesty no orgasm could ever feel as good as peace and quiet does.

I don’t know yet about meeting someone else. I’m only just over a year a widow, so still very early days.

I am happy in my own company, I was single for a long time before, but when I look at my coupled friends I am envious of the teamwork and support (which of course I never reliably had). I’ll never marry or buy a house with someone again though!!!!! (And agree on ‘self service’)