Support group for those affected by someone else's drinking - thread 4

[pointythings]

I'm about to head out for the morning routine and given how active our thread has been I felt I had better provide a new one.

Link to the previous thread: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/alcohol_support/5418536-support-group-for-those-affecteed-by-someone-elses-drinking-thread-3

Not a divorce, a legal separation. The financial part is the same, but we remain legally married. For future finances, that's the best decision for me. Should we divorce I'd lose all entitlement to a widow's pension. And he would lose out on a widower's pension.

The timeframe appears to be about the same as for a divorce if you have a non-cooperative spouse. It's been 7 months and the first court date is in April. My snag is that he's refusing to respond to everything, which drags the financials out as a judge has to rule on my proposed settlement. If he doesn't like it, it's back to the drawing board. If he does, he signs off and DH is served with the notice of approval. He has (IIRC) 60 days to appeal. My attorney said when we filed that it will take about a year and it looks like she's right. If he had cooperated and we'd negotiated a settlement together, it would probably be done and dusted next month.

The kicker is that since he didn't respond, even after the finalization he has up to 6 months to lodge a request to reopen 'for cause'. Whether or not a judge thinks "I was too drunk all the time to know what I was doing" is 'cause' or not, who knows?

@pointythings

Thank you so much for that post. You don't know how much peace that has given me.

Surely if divorce the pension will be split - tho guess you mean once due I’d divorcee you won’t get the pension ?

I can’t wait to be divorced. To have that final line. I got the email last week saying judge had approved and now hopefully in the final 8w

ex got sent a letter which he texted me yesterday with sad faces and shame

@AcrossthePond55 I'm so very sorry that this is your situation at the moment, it's so very unfair on top of everything else you have to cope with.
Wise words from @pointythings , I too have often wished STBXH dead, not only for the peace it would bring me ultimately, but because it would also mean he was at last free of his demons too.
I'm a bit confused, so sorry if I've misunderstood - are you referring to a 'widows' pension as in a payment from the state should he die - like an addition to your state pension or a private pension that you would only be able to access if you remained married?
If it's the former, in the UK, you can get a legal separation that's just short of a divorce but the legal 'marriage' status remains, perhaps that would still mean you're not a 'widow' though, should he die? Sorry, no clue how that works in the US.
If it's the latter then you could try negotiating (yes I know that's damn near impossible with him) for you to receive his private pension if he dies by way of a bequeathment in his will?
Only you can decide if the financial stability is 'worth' staying married - that stability is the main reason I stayed for as long as I did (once his behaviour started killing off the love I had for him) - so no judgement from me!
I'm 'walking away' from £500,000 in life insurance by divorcing my H but hey ho, it's the price I'm now ready to pay. To be brutally honest (and thankfully I can be on here), despite his destructive lifestyle, his health somehow, so far, remains intact and I just couldn't keep waiting for him to die (and I was doing that).
Like @Penguinsandspaniels , I am counting down the weeks until I'm free of this joke we called a marriage. I'm much further away from that, 20+ weeks still to go but every second it's getting nearer....

@zeroclucksgiven who will get the life in ? His kids ? Family ? You may still get it if he has you named regardless of marriage

equally he may be a c* about it an not allow you any

tho surely he I’ll see it’s for his kids

so you have applied and paid the £612 I think it is and filled the paperwork in - so by end of Aug is not before you can carry on with divorce ?

im amazed ex is still alive as looks awful. So skinny and barely walking tho thats down to him falling down stairs drunk and hip repaired

the 20w will fly by. It didn’t seem to me that I started divorce in Sept and 5mths

i did ask my firm why the 5mth wait and they said many people change their minds - I said I wouldn’t be an esp after paying out so much - it’s on my credit card and I’m slowly chipping away at it

as I didn’t have the money. Prob won’t ever have the spare cash so thought I need to do this. Been separated 18mths it’s now I need to

as I said above his text - he doesn’t want to get divorced an wants us to try again - but has agreed as I said no choice am we will never get back together as he still drinks

him / I don’t have the money to drink. I have a drink so rarely 🙄 as have bills to pay. Yeah right !

@zeroclucksgiven since you asked about the pension I'll 'at' you since I'm explaining it here.

It's not a split. When we retired we each took a small reduction in our monthly pensions (from employment) to provide a survivor's pension for the other. It's a voluntary thing and of course at that time we wished to provide for each other. Divorce negates entitlement. Separation does not. The requirement is that the survivor be 'legally married at the time of the pensioner's death'. Legal separation does not end the marriage. In the eyes of the law I would be his widow or he would be my widower.

Personally, I'm starting to prefer the archaic term of 'relict'. "May I introduce you to Mrs Pond, the relict of Mr Pond"? has a gruesome sound to it which fits my mood these days lol.

'State' pension (that would be Social Security here) isn't affected by divorce as we've been married over 10 years which meets the time requirement for the category of 'surviving divorced spouse'. I'm currently drawing as his wife and will get an increased amount on his death (same amount if widowed or divorced), but that's separate from the pension survivor's benefits that I'm hanging on for. I didn't pay in to SS as I was a Fed and we're exempt so he won't get anything more if I die first.

A legal separation makes us 'married in name only'. We will have no legal responsibility or obligation to or for one another and cannot be held liable for the other's debts. We do technically remain each other's next of kin, but I've already done the POAs to make my sons my NOK so he will have no say over my financial or medical decisions should that be necessary. All finances and physical 'property' (excluding the house) will be assigned to us individually and become our sole asset or property. The house will end up being sold and any equity split as neither of us wants it, nor could he afford to buy me out if he did want it.

And obviously, neither of us could remarry. But that is and will remain the furthest thing from my mind. I have less than zero desire to have another relationship of any kind. Nada, zip, bupkis. No man will ever plant his boots under my bed again. I have the memories of all the good times to cherish, and all the bad times to remind me to remain single. Should he want to, he can file for a divorce.

Thanks @AcrossthePond55, I appreciate the explanation, but sorry if I kinda ‘obliged’ you to give it 😵‍💫 hope you get the outcome you deserve, least he can do under the circumstances and hell he has, and continues to, put you through xx
@Penguinsandspanielswe have no shared dc thankfully Mother Nature had worked her magic and I didn’t conceive when we tried, he only has one and really wanted us to ‘join our family together properly’ with another…. I honestly shudder now at what additional shit a child with him would’ve meant! So his DC will inherit his life insurance and mine will go to mine…. Although mine is considerably less than his, it matters not.
our interim divorce order is June 12th and we have to sort the financial order before so it can be submitted with it. My solicitor has always stressed that she is only interested in getting me ‘what’s fair’ and once she sees all the details she will decide at that juncture what else (if anything) we ask for on top of half the house and half the savings.
Anything more is just a bonus for me, I lined up my ducks with just those two things and I will manage just fine, I’ve never minded cereal/toast for my dinner if that’s all I can afford 😉

Unfortunately I got royally screwed over in the whole process. I was the main earner and had provided all the cash for life and our house. In his death half the house went to his children. We have negotiated a ‘deal’ which overall buys me peace of mind, and is less than the divorce settlement would have been, so I do my best to not get bitter and twisted. On the upside I get a NHS widow’s pension of £96 a month which I devote to fun things!
Lesson learned protect whatever you can, and I never intend to marry again…….and please let anyone who owns a house as joint tenants understand that this can be changed to tenants in common without mutual consent.

@AcrossthePond55 that sounds complicated and sounds awful me saying this- but hope he dies soon for you

@zeroclucksgiven I would never be without my dd but obv having ex as dad means he will always be in our lives till he dies

@Userccjlnhibibljn8 so sorry to read this - why did you not ring fence it

oh reading next bit. I did not know that - how can they be legal ?

and no I will never marry again

@Penguinsandspaniels All legal I am afraid. It would not have mattered if we had finalised the divorce phase as the house would have been a marital asset, so overall I did end up better off, and without a huge stress and legal costs, but it is still very galling.

I’m just going to give an update on what’s happening here .
husband is out of detox and rehab now for 8 weeks so very very early days.
he has been going back as a day patient twice a week
this was the last week but he has the option of a weekly group therapy with some of the hospital therapy team which he has signed up for.
he also has an app which is supposed to support him and I can also access that. He has to do a breathalyser daily as part of this app. I’m not sure why.
he is seeing his sponsor weekly
he is attending daily AA meetings.
he insists that he is so relieved that he is no longer drinking
he continues to take sick leave with the support of the psychiatrist.
BUT I feel absolutely terrible. I just can’t forget the horrors of the last year. I cannot stop crying. This Easter people we usually go away with just didn’t include us/invite us I don’t know why but think maybe because I’ve kept everyone at arms length for the past 18/12 or maybe they have twigged the extent of his problem .
im so sorry to complain but I just feel so angry and resentful.it feels like im being punished for what hes done .It looks like he won’t be returning to work on the advice of the treatment team . So if he stays off the booze and we stay together we’d be ok financially but if he goes back and I need to leave it would be a very different story as you all know. He doesn’t seem to take this in at all.
Also I am hearing all about his meetings therapy etc and selfishly I’m thinking WHAT ABOUT ME?
sorry to complain but it all feels so uncertain and I can’t enjoy anything just watching and waiting for things to go backwards.
sorry for the James Joyce stream of consciousness.

Sorry just seen this. Went to bed early @wouldratgerbeunknown

I can’t rem if you have kids or not - there a few of us in group and I can’t keep up

8w is early days but he is doing well but agree takes it out on you

you are expecting him to fail as always has before and no one thinks of you coping and having to deal with it all

it’s all about him

a breathalyser of to prove to you he isn’t drinking but I used to breathalyse ex an tho always 0.0 obv somehow he got round it as was def drinking and even dd said he was a would go to cuddle him and a bottle of vodka behind his back/cushion when I was at work

daily aa is good an hopefully he finds them supportive

work. I personally feel they need to go back to th normal world
snd work and give a purpose

how old are you both ?

course you can’t forget the horrors as been so Many and they impact on us

and it’s still the what if they drink and for me even tho ex never got sober - I just couldn’t do it anymore with the lies an egg shells of never knowing what he would be like when came home

was he a nightmare last Easter - talk to them. It’s not our embarrassment. It’s their Behaviour and ex hid it well so sure your dh did as well and unless you tell people the don’t know

You are not complaining but struggling as always seems to be about them and no one asks how you are coping but again unless tell people thy don’t know

my close friends were shocked when I told them of what had been going on and th fact been 2yrs + of it from when k kicked him out the first time

they were and are still so supportive so do tell people

how can he afford to stay off work?

Does that mean you are the one paying for it all ?

if so sure you begrudge this big time. I know I would

ex know had to pay out of his uc fo bills and food and finally reliese what it is like

please don’t apologise. You feelings are valid an our group of the safe space to vent

@wouldratgerbeunknown Do you have resources to be able to use a therapist? An hour that is totally dedicated to you and your thoughts. If not financially possible, maybe at least acknowledge them by seeing your GP, and as it were ‘put them on record’.

it will sound rather crazy, but experiment with chatting to AI (I use Gemini). It’s not real, and should be read with care, but you can have a conversation, again that is dedicated to you. I have used it to translate a stream of consciousness into a plan of a conversation with my therapist.

Your thoughts are all very understandable, I recall feeling the same with mine after rehab. You have the times when he is in his groups to not worry about him as he is their problem. Take that time to breathe.

Thankyou both. Maybe I could get some counselling I have tried a couple of smart recovery groups but they are online doesn’t seem any real life things near me.
i think I’m stuck. I veer between thinking it will be ok to absolute catastrophe.
we are not yet old enough for state pension but would be ok to manage until then but only if he does not start drinking again.
yes I’ve “talked” to chat GPT I think it’s overly kind to me.
this time last year was absolutely horrific it was when the extent of the problem showed itself in all its vicious glory so keep dwelling on that.
we are supposed to be going away for a few days next week to a remote cottage but there’s daily AA meetings in the nearest town.- so I’m hoping some fresh air and walks by the sea will help to calm me down.
once again Thankyou for your support you are the best!! I really hope everyone gets a bit of peace this Easter .
@Hellodarknes55 I just hope you are ok and your son is still in rehab?
@AcrossthePond55are things just the same?
@LavenderFieldds thinking of you xxx

Good morning (at least here lol)!

I think a lot of your current 'ride on the crazy train' (that's what I call the veering from emotion to emotion) has a lot to do with the fact that you are not being paid attention to in the way you deserve AND that your brain can't settle on whether he's going to drink or whether he's going to stay sober. Right now your DH is the 'star of the show' and his sobriety is everyone's main concern. I can understand the need for this to keep him on course, but I don't think it should mean that you're left hanging out to dry. Because it's taking the oxygen out of air that you need. He may need a supply of oxygen, but that doesn't entitle him to take yours.

You need a therapist who is devoted only to your wellbeing. Someone who doesn't first consider the effect on his sobriety of a decision that you make for yourself. I think that's the only way you'll really be able to make the 'go or stay' decision that's warring inside you. And remember, you do NOT have to stay if he does attain sobriety.

This is sort of where I am at this point; if my DH does attain sobriety (which I doubt), would I really want to move back or are things so broken that I am better off living on my own, either as 'together apart' or without him at all. There are some wounds that cannot be healed and I think that the damage done by an addict might be one of those wounds, at least for me.

I also think you might want to consider some time away on your own. Away from the house, away from him. It doesn't matter where, even a room in a hotel in your town might do. Remember that you are NOT responsible for his sobriety. If he can't manage to not drink for 48-72 hours to allow you some respite, then his chances for life long sobriety aren't very good, are they? You don't want to spend the rest of your life 'babysitting' him.

That is also one of the fears I have with DH. That he will expect me to 'keep him sober' for the rest of our lives. Once again, it's them putting what should be their responsibility onto us whilst giving them a 'get out of jail free card'. If they drink it'll be, not their fault, but ours because we weren't watching 'closely enough'.

As far as my situation goes, yes, it's pretty much the same. He's still in the facility, expected discharge the 13th. I've told him he needs to let them know that he needs to be AT home by 'end of the day' on the 12th because on the 13th he has a mandatory phone conference with his DUI attorney. He can't be in the midst of being discharged when he's supposed to be on the phone.

@wouldratgerbeunknown I agree with everything that @AcrossthePond55 has said above. There's a saying we use in our RL group: you don't have to set yourself on fire to keep someone else warm. And that is what it feels like when you're dealing with someone who is in fragile recovery. It is not selfish to want some love and care for yourself. It is not selfish to do things for yourself and take things for yourself. Part of your husband's recovery is learning to manage himself by himself, without you holding his hand.

So if you can afford therapy for yourself, do it.

Thanks everyone. I’ll write more later. Fortunately I’ve been planning for separation and had already researched my financial options, so in the next couple of months I can take back full control financially. Thank goodness my mother drilled it into me to have a good career pre children, so I can pick stuff up, even at a lower level. Hugs to you all, especially @AcrossthePond55 .

But I’m giggling quietly because I’m now the only one with any money for the next two weeks and he’s running out of alcohol.

An then what will happen?

be sober for 2w till gets money again ?

or beg borrow steal

Thanks and hugs back!

My parents (both of them) drilled into me the need to have a good career. Not against a marital breakup because their marriage was truly wonderful and I suppose they took it for granted mine would be the same. For them it was just that everyone needs to be able to earn a good living, even if they end up as a SAHM. I was never in the place to be a SAHM, so luckily my career continued to prosper even as we were raising our family. For all his flaws, I cannot fault DH for his participation as an equal parent as far as our careers were concerned.

So I totally get the feeling of relief to know that when the time comes you'll have the means to separate and to support yourself. I remember that feeling when I looked at my own finances and said "Yes, I can do this!". I don't have the level of finances we had together, but I'm not eating beans and rice three times a day either. And I'm able to put a bit by at the end of the month. And honestly, who needs more than that to be happy?

DH is fine financially too. I'm honestly glad about that and that chances are he'll never be homeless even after the house gets sold (O happy day!). Even if (when) he goes back to drinking he'd still be ok, although he might be eating beans and rice (and alcohol). His hurdle will be what he has to pay out on his DUI charge. We both have good savings, but his may be badly reduced when all is said and done. However, not my problem.

I didn't have a DD, only DSs. But you bet I drilled the 'have a good career' into them too.

Cracking open the not quite ready home brew cider, probably.

The children’s godmother, my dearest friend, has played fairy godmother for the Easter Bunny this year, so there is a chocolate cake in the oven right now and the children will have Easter treats and excursions as usual, so they won’t notice anything different.

@LavenderFieldds

Well, bless her! As my dear grandmother used to say when someone did something kind or thoughtful "She's earned another jewel for her Heavenly crown".

I am still here. Sorry about my silence. My head is full to be honest.
We picked my son up from detox on Tuesday.
He has been very quiet since he returned. He doesn’t want to talk to us.
he was the youngest in detox by a fair old whack (20+ yrs). We wonder if he has been shocked by it all.
So he is sober at the moment. 3 days.
My seasonal business launches tomorrow.
My reflexologist has got me through the last two weeks.
We watch and wait.

Hugs to you all.

@Hellodarknes55 Hopefully he has had a huge shock and needs time alone to process what he has been through and what he needs to do now. The very best of luck to you moving forward. xx