Continuing support group for those affected by someone else's drinking

[pointythings]

Our current thread is nearly full, and it's too valuable to lose in the mists of time, so this is thread 2. Come here if you are struggling with a loved one's drinking - partner, parent, child, friend, there's support for you here no matter which person in your life is struggling with the drink and having an adverse impact on you. The women on here have all been there or are still going through it. We support and advise each other, we don't judge, we listen.

Original thread here to refer back to: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/alcohol_support/4581221-support-group-for-those-affected-by-someone-elses-drinking

DH has responded to my concerns by drinking 16 x 2l bottles of cider this week. And he hid some empties. New low.

I am writing him a letter so he can take time to digest it but basically it will say that I am not prepared to watch him drink.himself to death so he needs to be sober or I will buy him out of the house and he can get somewhere else to live.

Currently I feel totally numb about it all, like part of me has switched off. My main worry is DS2 who is just starting year 11 and has autism and adhd. The other two will both be living away.

It is very hard when children are involved but on that amount of drink your DH isn't capable of parenting and living with a constantly drunk parent is damaging. To be honest, I'd be more worried for your son if you stay than if you go. I expect you realise that your DH is unlikely to react sensibly to your letter. He may well not agree to leave. It is vanishingly unlikely that he will stop drinking because you've asked him to. So you need to consider what you want to achieve and how you can make it happen without his cooperation. You don't need his agreement to start divorce proceedings.

Starting to seriously think about some sort of therapy now. I've never wanted to before, but I've been reading more, thinking a lot and wonder if it might help.

For the last day or so, I've been thinking about one event. Mum came to visit me about ten years ago. I think she just wanted a city trip, do some museums etc. She was very much an alcoholic at the time but she was still sort of functional. I was starting to shake off some of the denial. Anyway, I met her in the city centre, she got out of a taxi and my heart sank because I realised she was already drunk. We went to a museum but I wanted to climb out of my skin and I thought I cannot fucking do this. I cannot be here. I cannot stay in this situation a second longer. I told her I was going home and I left her by herself.

I feel enormously guilty about this. And ashamed, because who leaves their mother alone in a city like that? She knew the city, had plenty of money, would be fine, but it's still not ok. I think maybe my brain has chosen this event to help express the general guilt and shame that I otherwise can't really make tangible.

I told my partner all of this just now, but he walked away, up the stairs, saying his contact lenses were irritating him. He's very apologetic now and I don't think he meant to do that, but I realised I cannot risk this happening again. It's already hard enough to talk or express anything, ever. I've never really been listened to. I think I need to pay someone, who will sit there and listen and not walk away.

Hope no one minds me pouring out about this rather niche event but I had to get it out just now.

Complex bereavement is a beast. It lurks until you think you're OK and then it pounces. Yes, get counselling. It's so, so helpful to have someone hold up a mirror and help you see your own dysfunctional thinking.

What your partner did there is not OK. He needs to either support you and listen, even if it's for the 100th time, or he needs to be honest and let you know there are thing he can't give you and tell you what they are.

@pointythings thank you, your encouragement is really needed and appreciated. I'll do some research and maybe ask anonymously on local facebook.

I think he was just being a bit dim, to be honest. He clearly feels awful now and even though I want to stew, I can't punish him. I don't ask for much from people and this is maybe the problem. I'm always in a conversation with myself about all of this. It's time to get help from someone else, someone trained not to be clumsy.

I genuinely miss the numbness of this time last year. I don't drink or take any kind of drugs (and won't) but I miss that weighted-blanket feeling.

Expecting the coroner's disclosure pack any day now. The whole inquest process has been delayed because someone apparently messed up and forgot to actually give the coroner the witness statements. Fantastic. Anyway, I think reading the pack will help me. I've also applied for mental health medical notes. Not because I want to sue anyone. What I want is to be able to construct a timeline of my childhood. To tie events to years, my years. My dad can't say when it started, when it escalated. I barely remember anything, probably because it was all a bit depressing. I think this is something I'd really like to have.

Much love and gratitude to you and this group, as ever. It is always a massive relief to be able to come here occasionally and talk.

@amlie8 oh my dear, my heart goes out to you. Please do find counselling and make sure they are good. We raised my niece because of her mother’s alcoholism and she finally began proper therapy at 17. It was life changing she went from numb and anxious, weto fully able to express herself

Sorry sent too soon. She couldn’t remember anything much about the 14 years she spent with her Mum. The process was painful for her at times as the memories surfaced ( fainting at school and not telling anyone she hadn’t eaten in days)
but properly brought her to life. Sometimes people aren’t that curious about the past, but you clearly are, and need answers.
Your story was fascinating and resonated so much. I have awful guilt about the times I said no to pretending everything was ok too, and also awful guilt for the times I went along with the nonsense and the excuses. And most of all for the times when I gave in to pressure and bought the wine.

@amlie8 my DS is finally addressing his own feelings about his father, 7 years after he died. It takes as long as it takes.

Be careful with the MH notes. I had my late husband's therapy notes from husband's rehab after he died and had to shred them because it was so clear that he had made zero progress. Ge had been faking it the whole way through and in reality blamed me for all his woes. Be prepared.

@amlie8 the desire to construct a timeline is common in children of alcoholics. Living with an alcoholic parent must be so confusing for a child. Their parent is behaving unpredictably for reasons not fully understood, and constantly lying and gaslighting. It must be so traumatising. Regarding the incident you describe, you shouldn't feel guilty. You couldn't cope with her drunkenness and you walked away. It was the right thing to do.

@Zebracat Oh, that's interesting that your niece can't remember much either. I'm starting to remember more now and some of it bloody stings. I'm so pleased to hear how far she's come. I hope things are good, or as good as possible.

As for your guilt, well, it is impossible for us to avoid, I guess. A few years ago, I picked her up from hospital after cancer surgery and the nurse said she must not drink. Of course I went out immediately to get the drink for her, because I just couldn't face the aggro, especially on top of my own stress about her cancer. Give in or refuse, it's all the same.

I held my tongue a lot. There were many things I thought, or said to others, that I never said to her. Generally, I couldn't bring myself to hurt her feelings. Though I did a few times. I definitely did on the day she died and at some point I will have to face that... maybe that's a good reason to find a therapist now. Maybe all of this today is some kind of proxy for that.

@CharlotteByrde thank you for sharing that. I find that so much of what I think or feel is common and normal to children of alcoholics and that's comforting. Normal responses to abnormal situations.

@pointythings With the MH notes... I may find they're all illegible anyway! It's also possible that I'll be mentioned, as someone she blamed. But I knew that already. I kind of resent that I have to do therapy, and find thinking about everything completely exhausting. But it is what it is. I would rather do what is needed than carry on avoiding it.

Thanks @amlie8 . She’s more than ok, she’s thriving, she’s just gone to study abroad for a year, she’s 22, clever, kind, independent, well balanced and having a lovely time. I’m so proud of her. She was practically mute when we got her, suicidal, malnourished, school refusing, completely enmeshed in the parents issues. Who knows what therapy will unlock for you.

@Zebracat that's incredible. She sounds lovely! It wasn't just the therapy, of course, it was your love and determination too.

@amlie8 I have found seeing a psychologist very helpful. It is good to have someone that I can just talk about it all to and know that that is what I am paying her for. I’m only seeing her every 6 weeks or so at the moment, as I feel I am doing OK. I keep notes of what I want to talk to her about, and in itself that is helpful as by getting it on paper ‘puts it away’ in the interim.

@CharlotteByrde the thing is, the alcohol doesn't stop him doing any more stuff than his illness.

It's not the active, physical part of parenting I mean though. An alcoholic is totally unable to put a child's needs first, or able to think rationally about whether the things they say are appropriate or kind. They tell lies and they gaslight. In my own children's experience, the effects of living with an alcoholic have been lasting and profoundly damaging.

Hi everyone, just checking in. I’m back from a lovely holiday with my kids which was a wonderful dose of escapism. I’m back to emails from ex about how well he is reducing, that he is about to do a detox, would like to make things up to me etc. Why do I have a pang of ‘maybe I should give him another chance/ maybe he could kick it this time if he hasn’t lost me too’? The man’s low intake is 15 units per day by the way. Why do I feel like I should sacrifice myself at the altar of his recovery? I’m so annoyed with myself!

Aside from the harassment immediately post break up, it’s been such a blissful two months of ‘life without the anxiety of loving an addict’. Why would I even consider a return to a life on eggshells?! Even in those rare weeks of sobriety post rehab, constantly fearing relapse/ watching for signs of impending relapse/ trying to always meet his needs/wants to ‘prevent a relapse’ was excruciating. I know I can’t fix him, so why do I always want to try.

I think I’m in a similar situation. A close friend is drinking again…
One stint of rehab 8 months ago, and one short relapse (3/4 days a few months ago) that I’m aware of.
Her 2 teenage kids are with her ex H this week but due back soon. Her partner (of 2 years) is likely to leave her as I’m not sure how much he can take and she’s in a self destruct mode.
She’s likely to lose her job if she can’t pull herself out if this, is refusing rehab, and I’m not sure how, as a friend, I can best support.
Or if I can. What can I do wise MNers. Heartbreaking to see my dear friend of 15 years throw so much away and in such a desperate state.

@JanefromLondon you can't help her. You can however be supportive in the background. You do this by setting boundaries - if you are due to meet up with her and she rocks up drunk, you walk away and calmly but firmly tell her why. She's been to rehab, she has all the tools she needs to stop drinking if and when she wants to. When she's sober, be there for her but protect yourself.

Relapse is part of the journey of recovery, but what matters is how the addict responds to that relapse. If it's with a determined effort to seek help again, to go to meetings, to work harder at it - fine. If it's with minimising and dismissiveness, you walk away.

Thank you @pointythings. That makes sense.
It’s hard as she has very few people in her life right now.
It’s heartbreaking watching her decline and struggle. And then minimises between incidents….
Thank you for the advice. I’ve all my fingers crossed she’ll accept some help this time. 🤞

I hope so too. I watched my husband and then my mother choose self destruct every time, so I know how hard the powerlessness is, On the other hand, my DSis' partner is 15 years sober this year.

Keep posting here when it gets tough. We're all there to listen - this is MN's corner for people who have to cope with alcoholics.

Sounds really hard. I posted here about a friend of mine who is struggling right now but she is a recent friend and not someone I am close to.

I am also on the flip side of this coin and have been addicted to alcohol myself.

100% you need to protect yourself. Even when I was at my worst I always knew I was no one else's responsibility but my own.

A hard part is though you fall into a mean cycle -I'll drink - that's nice - oh it was only nice for a short while - drink more it will make that nice feeling come back - I'm drunk - next day - oh crap I did it again - I am awful - I am so useless - why can't I just 'get' this - I will never ever drink again - but you are pretty worthless anyway - go on have a drink it will make you feel better - I suppose one won't hurt.

The more I beat myself up, the worse I felt, so the more likely I was to drink again. I think that is often why people minimise it. Because they are protecting themselves from the shame.

Now it's a fine line, because minimise it too much and the addicted person can convince themself they don't really have a problem!!

Either way I would guess she knows. If she is a good friend and someone who you care about I would say something like 'Mary, I know you have been drinking again, please do not lie to me about it. That isn't what I want to discuss. I want you to know that I think you are a wonderful person (insert personal nice things about her). I want to be there to help you. But you know yourself I cannot help you until you want to be helped. If going in person seems to much why don't you check out SMART recovery online, a lady I was speaking to said they have a different approach that really helped her compared to the more traditional methods. I am here for you and the Mary I know and love can do this.""

(I am the lady you were speaking to lol)

@shewillneverstop- thank you. I’ve looked up SMART and looks really good. I’ve forwarded in the hope it strikes a note for my friend.
I’ve used a lot of your advice word for word - thanks!!
I also understand all you say about her needing to do it for herself. I wish it could be different for her. On the face of it she has sooooo much going for her. None of it makes any sense, when it feels so self inflicted.
I’m v glad I’ve found this thread. It feels like a long road ahead for all involved.
Thanks for support so far. 🙏

Finally got to read the coroner's bundle of documents today. It wasn't as difficult as I thought it would be. Even the post mortem report, which was thorough but really not graphic.

Despite decades of heavy smoking and drinking, my mother's health wasn't actually as bad as I expected. I thought it would be severe liver disease and/or pancreatitis but she had only got to the stage of fatty liver disease, and there was no evidence of the latter. She did have a few issues connected to drinking and smoking, which we already knew about, so no surprises there.

Not too upset. It is what it is. What annoys(?) me is that if she had chosen to sort herself out, she probably could have turned her health around. She was naturally strong and healthy but threw all of that away.

Also, reading it all through shows that no one could do a thing to stop her. I think even without the drink, she would have been an unhappy person.

Changing subject: like folks above, I also have a friend/acquaintance with an alcohol problem. Generally I'd run a mile from people like that now, but I do stay loosely in touch with her because she shares my experience of parental alcoholism and suicide. (I don't get too into her issues with her, because if anyone deserves a break from all that, it's me.) But when we talk, I gently and consistently tell her that alcohol makes everything worse, that it's possible to stop and that the help is out there. Nothing else I can say.

But when we talk, I gently and consistently tell her that alcohol makes everything worse, that it's possible to stop and that the help is out there. Nothing else I can say.

Those words, said kindly and with no expectation of change, are the sum total of duty for anyone who has an addict in their life. When we can accept how powerless we are, there's a little peace to be had.

@amlie8 I know you said it wasn't too bad but it must still be hard reading something like that. You are right about your friend, you deserve peace. Her problems are not yours.

I think my mum has eased off the alcohol for now or so she says. But I don't really know. I facetime'd her with my DC last weekend and she was still drunk from the night before. Wrapped that call up very quick