Continuing support group for those affected by someone else's drinking

[pointythings]

Our current thread is nearly full, and it's too valuable to lose in the mists of time, so this is thread 2. Come here if you are struggling with a loved one's drinking - partner, parent, child, friend, there's support for you here no matter which person in your life is struggling with the drink and having an adverse impact on you. The women on here have all been there or are still going through it. We support and advise each other, we don't judge, we listen.

Original thread here to refer back to: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/alcohol_support/4581221-support-group-for-those-affected-by-someone-elses-drinking

@Userccjlnhibibljn8 I'm sorry. I think my dad feels a lot like you do. He can't help feeling guilty, thinking about how he should have done more. Or should have done less.

I think you know, rationally, that you did all you could. My dad knows that too. But as pointythings says, the feelings are just so powerful.

We are a little bit further along than you, as it's almost a year for us. The first year is such a lot, I think. I've heard the second year isn't fabulous either. But I reckon more clarity comes.

(I'm currently reading a lot about alcoholism, emotionally absent parenting etc. And I'm speaking to family members on my mum's side to find out more about what happened, how things went wrong, family history, why they're all so fucking odd. I guess I'm still in fact-finding mode, but I think in a calm, reflective way. I'll list the books I've read, at some point, as that might be useful for the other folks here with alcoholic parents.)

After losing someone to suicide years ago you couldn’t have done more

equally as others said - he could have killed you.

you did the right thing leaving

@amlie8 Hello, I was pleased to see you here again, I very much appreciated your pointers when everything was very new for me. I’m working through the anniversaries, becoming an expert in planning ’things to do’.

It’s a funny old journey. Sometimes I just let myself tell people I am a widow without the back story….but that feels somehow dishonest, but so much more normal.

I have spoken a lot with my sister in law, who took her brother in for his last months, trying to unravel why he became what he was, but there was nothing in their background that lead to the end. We just hold onto the ’good’ version of him and try to accept that other side of him was who caused us both so much pain.

Thank you all for keeping me honest. 🌹

Sometimes I just let myself tell people I am a widow without the back story….but that feels somehow dishonest, but so much more normal.

I feel this too. It's as if by telling people I'm a widow I'm looking for sympathy, when in reality the feelings are so, so much more complicated than that.

You are under no moral obligation to tell everyone your entire life story. I don't make stuff up, I just don't necessarily tell the whole truth. "Sadly she passed away" is enough.

I agree with that up to a point, but when someone makes it clear during their conversation that they are in the same boat I have been in, I do want to make it clear to them that they are not alone.

Ex DP is calling me a narcissist and control freak because I won’t let him see DD who is two yrs old, because he has been sober one day after a week long bender.
Also because I won’t let him stay at my house tonight while I am away house/pet sitting for my mother for the week.
He has a job interview tomorrow (he started a new job last week and turned up drunk on his first day, so lost it before he even started) .. Wants me to give him my key, so he can go get his smart clothes and stay at mine “away from the drinking environment” to prepare for his interview tomorrow.
Now it’s my fault he can’t go to his interview because I’ve said no. Not his fault for not picking up his clothes the countless times i have asked him to over the last few months, including last week.
He was too busy drinking to bother. But as always, it’s me to blame for ruining his opportunity’s.
And I’m “stopping him seeing his child” because today isn’t convenient for me, and i won’t let him take her alone as he has only been sober one day.
God give me patience, because of you give me strength I might be tempted to use it inappropriately!

@MamaBear81 stay strong. Protect your little one and yourself from his addict behaviour. What he says doesn't matter in the slightest - alcoholics will always blame the easy target rather than take any responsibility for their own behaviour.

@MamaBear81 You're showing strength every day. But I imagine you've run out patience. If he's verbally abusive, put the phone down. Refuse to engage with his nonsense.

@CharlotteByrde i won’t speak to him on the phone. I only ever communicate via email these days so that I’ve got a record of everything. I haven’t refused him contact, just not today. I have offered him the alternative of Wednesday when I am free (his parents usually supervise his contact, but they are also away this week) .. but because I don’t give into his demands, here come the accusations that I’m stopping him from seeing her. He didn’t even ask to see her until he had spent almost two hours asking me about staying at my house tonight and telling me how unfair I am for refusing and how I’m ruining his job opportunity. It’s just because he didn’t get his own way with that, he has to find something else to hold against me.
Its always the same. He will start off being nice and polite because he wants something, then when I don’t give it to him he starts with the blame game. I’m so, so tired of it all. I wish I could just cut contact with him completely this point, but our DD loves him and gets so excited when she see’s him. But there’s no consistency at the moment because I just don’t know if he’s gonna be drunk from one day to the next, so it’s difficult to pre-arrange anything.

I think keeping to the boundaries you have set is absolutely the sensible thing to do. He isn't going to be sensible and consistent, so that's on you.

As for wanting to come to your house - hard no. Mine tried that - I was going to be away for the day with the DC at an archery shoot and he claimed that the washing machine he had in his rented flat wasn't working properly because it took so long. I told him that it was just something modern washing machines did, and if it really didn't work to take it up with the landlord. It was a control/territorial tactic. Don't fall for it.

@pointythings definitely is a control tactic. He thinks that by starting off polite and friendly will soften me enough to give him what he wants - it used to, but not anymore and he hates that.
He is currently living with two friends who are also alcoholics. He did live with his parents for a week, then got drunk and played hell there so they kicked him out too.
He’s using the “if you cared about me, you would help me get out of the drinking environment so I’ve got the best chance of being on top form for my interview tomorrow” card - emotional manipulation and it doesn’t wash with me anymore. I’m not responsible for him, and He was away from the drinking environment when he was at his parents. He still ended up drunk within a week of staying there. He also got a job, but went in drunk on his first day (was drinking a bottle of vodka on the 45 minute train journey there, at 6.15 in the morning) .. but it’s me ruining his opportunities apparently. This is all while taking Antabuse aswell. Absolutely ridiculous. But he will always play the victim because he’s “ill”.

@MamaBear81 you see him so, so clearly. No way is he going to get what he wants from you, you are exactly what your name says you are. Keep on keeping on. If you feel yourself wavering or want to vent, come here. Until then, grey rock is your friend. Oh, and please stay on these threads, you will be so helpful to people who come after!

The blame game is endless isn’t it. I genuinely believed that one day my ex would run out of things to blame for why he drunk/ relapsed/ lapsed/ ‘slipped’. I used to try and ‘negotiate’ and try and reason about them with him. It was infuriating and ultimately a hiding to nowhere. He’d have a few rationale moments where he would see that he was making excuses, but that kind of resolve never lasted longer than a day. Then when he had lashed out enough at whoever/ whatever was the ‘reason he drank to manage his anxiety’, he expected to be forgiven because poor me, addiction is so hard, my life is so hard, no one understands me.

I’m one month in from leaving him and having a bitter day!!

Don’t get me wrong, I know addiction is hard, I wouldn’t wish it on anyone to crave something that destroys you. But loving an addict is bloody hard too. You have no control either yet all of the hurt and the anxiety and the guilt.

@Nogoodusername bitter is allowed on here! Be as bitter as you like, and I'm so glad to hear you're a month out from freedom.

@MamaBear81 he sounds exhausting. Don't get involved in an email back and forth because you can't argue with that level of insanity and there's no point trying. I feel for you and for your DD. She may well adore him, but he's going to keep letting her down. Just keep focusing on protecting her. @Nogoodusername it's certainly an emotional rollercoaster, and none of those emotions brings joy. But happiness will come.

@Nogoodusername i could have written that myself! I also used to try and negotiate and try and get him to see things from my side, but to no avail.. he would sometimes pretend to agree my points, but it was never genuine because he would throw it back at me in the next argument over his drinking.
So In the end I just gave up, it was a waste of time, energy and emotion.
Prolonged excessive drinking changes the brain chemistry, they just can’t see that they are doing anything wrong. My ex DP (while sober) would say that he cared about what he was doing to me and DD, but then while drunk would admit he didn’t. It messed with my mind so much because I never knew which side of him was real - I still don’t.
Sober he can be the nicest person you would wish to meet - drunk, an absolute nightmare.
But lately I’m seeing signs when he’s sober too - the emotional blackmail and attempts at manipulation through guilt trips when he realises I’m not gonna give in to him just because he’s being nice. I think I was blind to it before, maybe because I always wanted his apologies and promises to be genuine and always held hope that they were. But he never stayed sober for longer than two weeks at the most. Then the verbal abuse would return, the demands of money for drink, suicide threats and threats to harm me if I didn’t give him what he wanted (although he never actually folllwed through on any of them) .. if I hadn’t kicked him out, he may have one day.
I remember one particular day he came home mid afternoon from getting a hair cut and was absolutely annihilated. I tried to send him to bed, but he was looking for more drink. Demanded I give him £5 to go buy a couple of cans or small vodka. Because I said no, he took his belt off, tied it around his neck and locked himself in the bathroom threatening to hang himself. This is while our DD who was 18 months old at the time, was sat playing with her toys on the living room floor.
I rang the police to have him removed from the house.
When he sobered up, I was the one in the wrong for over reacting and calling the police. He didn’t seem to care what our DD had witnessed, and that was one thing in a long line of incidents.

@MamaBear81 Reading your post was almost spooky, so many commonalities. Mine too would sometimes pretend that he agreed with me - it was usually because he could tell that my resolve was strong and my patience was gone, and that he had to do something to reel me back in to feel pity and sorry for him, and prioritise him, and believe the ‘addiction is the symptom not the illness’ (whereas I think his mental illness and addiction are co-occuring and reinforce and amplify eachother). However, towards the end, when I stopped being reeled back in by niceness and an apology (because I was close to my rock bottom), he would immediately switch back to ranting at me.

Mine has also become more manipulative and almost narcissistic as the addiction has progressed. I don’t really remember who he used to be any more, which broke my heart. In the last 18 months I have probably seen him sober/ out of addiction for about 3 months. He managed about 3 weeks after rehab 1, walked straight into the pub after a month in rehab 2. Rehab 4 was the most painful. He managed about 7 weeks and I really thought this time might be it. His relapse plan was straight back into rehab the second he touched a drink. He didn’t go, and he hasn’t stopped since.

I am so sorry that you have had to go through this with such a young child. You are a really strong woman.

I am feeling all the emotions today! I am furious with him. I am sad. I am relieved that I have managed a month free without caving to the guilt, the wanting to help him, the wanting to save him. I am also fearful that rock bottom likely is his death.

Sorry! Am on a rant tonight. In the last month we were together, he got fixated on the idea that anyone pushing him to focus on accessing support for recovery, or who stopped previous enabling and maintaining boundaries, was ‘punching down on him to avoid their own inadequacies’. Hours of ranting about how everyone likes to bash addicts to avoid their own problems, it makes them feel better, he knows what is going on, he can see the truth, and that he is very honest about his flaws but no one else is. Like what!?!

@Nogoodusername This is the thing - We can’t save them, and that’s something I found so hard to accept. I always felt a sense of responsibility towards him. If he followed through on his suicide threats, it would be my fault etc.. but it wouldn’t be.
We are not responsible for what another person does with their life. We are not responsible for the bad choices they make.
All we are doing by trying to help them, is enabling - teaching them that there won’t be any consequences to their actions, and we would always be there to pick up the pieces of the chaos they created .. until next time.
And we lose ourselves in the process.
I stayed with him when I didn’t want to, because i felt like I had no choice. I was afraid of what he would do if I didn’t.
I prioritised him over myself, pushed my own feelings aside for his sake.
But the fact the drinking carried on, and so regularly, eventually showed me that he didn’t care about my wants and needs, or those of our DD. It didn’t matter to him that I was sacrificing my own wellbeing and happiness, as long as he had someone to come back to when his latest bender was over - someone to put a roof over his head, keep him fed, wash his clothes and financially support him until the next bender.. which was never far away. I spent every day waiting for the next time, and i became a nervous, anxious, miserable shell of the woman I used to be. That wasn’t fair on DD either. She is a child who relies on me to keep her safe & secure. He is a grown man. My responsibility lies with her and myself, not him. And I realised I had to prioritise my own wellbeing in order to be the mother she deserves.
But even now, he can’t accept that. He still tries to guilt trip me for leaving him to “fight this alone”. He still asks me for money because he blows all his on drink within days.
It’s my fault he’s left with nothing because I threw him out. The difference is, I don’t cave into it anymore. The guilt isn’t there anymore, it’s now anger at how selfish he really is.

@MamaBear81 @Nogoodusername so impressed by how strong and clear headed you both are. It took me such a long time to get to a similar place.

@CharlotteByrde thank you - i don’t always feel strong though. There are days like today where he is just relentless, and it’s exhausting.
It’s when he uses DD to emotionally manipulate me that gets to me the most. He says things like “she shouldn’t have to miss out on her daddy just because you don’t want to be with me anymore”, will accuse me of stopping him seeing her if I say no at a time that isn’t convenient - he expects me to say “how high” when he says jump, just drop everything and do what he wants, when he wants. And if I say no and offer an alternative, I’m a control freak and narcissist who is dictating his rights as a father.

I had become a shell of the woman I used to be. I was anxious all the time, worried about him, fearing a relapse, fearing another suicide attempt, walking on eggshells not wanting to upset him and be the cause for a bender and towards the end being the one he increasingly lashed out at verbally. Probably because I am one of the few left having burnt his relationship with his ex wife, his siblings, close friends etc.

We don’t have children together. I thankfully have children with a man who I co parent really well with, and who would walk through fire for our children. He has children who he doesn’t currently see because supervised contact broke down for obvious reasons. As the child of an alcoholic myself, I feel so desperately sad for his children and also definitely felt a responsibility to save their Dad for them. Madness, I know.

I realised though that I was living a half life from the anxiety and stress. It was making me less capable at work, and it was making me less of a mother because I was burnt out and anxious and was jumping every time there would be a crisis. And there was always a crisis on days important for my work or children. He would allege that ‘my perfect family life’ triggered him. I think he just couldn’t stand anything being more important than him. Such is the narcissism and victimhood of adrive addiction.

I find this board so helpful for those who have trod similar paths, and also the wisdom of those who have experienced the feared death and survived it, because ultimately: we cannot be responsible for the choices that another adult makes about their own life.